Another Down side to Red Flag Laws

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  • DadSmith

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    Another thought on red flag laws is this.

    Lets say someone hates you, and wants to kill you or your family members. You have guns so no can do. You need to be disarmed. So said scumbag calls in and red flags you, and has your firearms confiscated. You are now defenseless. Creep does his thing.

    This law can be abused by criminals as well.
     

    hpclayto

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    Another thought on red flag laws is this.

    Lets say someone hates you, and wants to kill you or your family members. You have guns so no can do. You need to be disarmed. So said scumbag calls in and red flags you, and has your firearms confiscated. You are now defenseless. Creep does his thing.

    This law can be abused by criminals as well.

    You do know that there has to be probable cause, right?
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Another thought on red flag laws is this.

    Lets say someone hates you, and wants to kill you or your family members. You have guns so no can do. You need to be disarmed. So said scumbag calls in and red flags you, and has your firearms confiscated. You are now defenseless. Creep does his thing.

    This law can be abused by criminals as well.

    Fortunately we live in the Great State of Indiana and not in Maryland. (PSA: if you live in Maryland, MOVE!!) "Presents a danger to themselves or other"; "is suicidal", "affidavit within 48 hours" here in Indiana is a ways from "show up with a SWAT Team at 0500 after one phone call" like we saw in Maryland.
     

    Ark

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    You do know that there has to be probable cause, right?

    Hahahahaha.

    No judge will ever reject a red flag order, no matter how flimsy. Any judge would rather order a thousand frivolous confiscations than refuse one and have that person turn out to be a mass shooter. There are zero political consequences to over-confiscating guns.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Hahahahaha.

    No judge will ever reject a red flag order, no matter how flimsy. Any judge would rather order a thousand frivolous confiscations than refuse one and have that person turn out to be a mass shooter. There are zero political consequences to over-confiscating guns.
    And this is based on opinion or legal knowledge?
     

    bwframe

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    source.gif
     

    Ark

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    And this is based on opinion or legal knowledge?

    Go ahead, I'll wait for you to find data showing ANY red flag orders have been denied in Maryland, Colorado, or other states that have rushed them into law.

    It's a simple question of incentive. Judges have every incentive to approve red flag orders. What incentive do they have to ever deny a single order? "We're just staying on the safe side".
     

    bwframe

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    Any Red Flag law must require specific and harsh penalties for wrongful accusations!!!!!

    While that is a very good idea, actual practice of such and penalties given could be quite problematic. On top of the fact that there is a whole segment of society that believe they are exempt from the courts giving them penalties.

    How many cases do we regularly see where, ANTIFA for example, rarely are prosecuted?

    That doesn't even begin to touch on the Obama appointed judges, who were picked because they never did believe in the 2A.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Hahahahaha.

    No judge will ever reject a red flag order, no matter how flimsy. Any judge would rather order a thousand frivolous confiscations than refuse one and have that person turn out to be a mass shooter. There are zero political consequences to over-confiscating guns.
    Yet they have absolutely NO qualms about releasing violent criminals back out onto the street to continue to commit their crimes after serving only a fraction of their sentence (if they serve any time at all). It has always been my contention that every judge and parole board member should be held personally accountable for the actions of the person they allow to be released earlier. He gets out and kills someone, then they are charged as accessories to murder. Bet there would be a lot more people serving their full terms.
     

    DeadeyeChrista'sdad

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    Doggy Daddy may be on to something. On the other hand, I get tired of EVERY politician campaigning on the promise of more time for relatively minor crimes. I get pissed when Jimmy child molester walks out while Johny pot smoker sits in the pokey.
     

    hpclayto

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    I’ve had judges order guns returned to clearly unstable people many times over the years. I love how everybody is losing their damn mind over “red flag” stuff when this has already been on the books and used for many, many years already. I guess this is what we’re supposed to be outraged at this week?
     

    bwframe

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    I’ve had judges order guns returned to clearly unstable people many times over the years. I love how everybody is losing their damn mind over “red flag” stuff when this has already been on the books and used for many, many years already. I guess this is what we’re supposed to be outraged at this week?

    How did the process go for these folks to get their firearms returned?
    Did they have to get legal counsel to get this done?
    How long did the process take?
    Were their firearms released right away?
    Did they have to "prove ownership" or anything like that to take possession of their own firearms that had been confiscated?
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I’ve had judges order guns returned to clearly unstable people many times over the years. I love how everybody is losing their damn mind over “red flag” stuff when this has already been on the books and used for many, many years already. I guess this is what we’re supposed to be outraged at this week?

    I don't think this summation is a fair assessment. When we've seen the very same people that called for SWATting carriers (or at the very least only superficially and tepidly criticizing those that did) being the same ones now cheering and excitedly calling for these laws to be passed by the Feds, I think it's a reasonable response to be dubious of how this will all work out. We should always be critical of the federal government reaching its tenticles into areas where they have no business, and especially at a time the democrats are losing their freaking minds trying to pass every gun control law they can dream up.
     

    worddoer

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    How did the process go for these folks to get their firearms returned?
    Did they have to get legal counsel to get this done?
    How long did the process take?
    Were their firearms released right away?
    Did they have to "prove ownership" or anything like that to take possession of their own firearms that had been confiscated?

    hpclayto - I am very interested in this as well.

    The political winds are not blowing in our direction. I am becoming somewhat convinced that we may not be able to fight back the next wave of gun control coming our way. It just seems to me that there is too much of the population that is asking to have their 2nd amendment rights taken away from them.

    If the Indiana Red Flag system is superior to other states, I would like to know more details on how this is working in the real world and how it differs from other states.
     

    hpclayto

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    I can't speak for how the process went. The only thing I knew about it was writing up the affidavit and putting the guns into evidence. What the judge decides and how the property is returned afterwards is out of my scope of practice.
     

    BGDave

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    hpclayto - I am very interested in this as well.

    The political winds are not blowing in our direction. I am becoming somewhat convinced that we may not be able to fight back the next wave of gun control coming our way. It just seems to me that there is too much of the population that is asking to have their 2nd amendment rights taken away from them.

    If the Indiana Red Flag system is superior to other states, I would like to know more details on how this is working in the real world and how it differs from other states.
    Only quoted you because your post is germain to why gun legislation is considered the third rail of politics.

    Results of the 1994 mid term election saw the Republican have a net gain in the house of 54 seats. The R's gained 7 in the senate. One of the losers was the House majority leader Tom Foley. This was the first time a majority leader got booted. A politicians first job is to stay on the gravy train. For extra credit, the 1994 AWB was fresh in everyones mind. Slick Willie said it was worth the beating. And yet, the sunset in 2004 undid most of it.
     

    russc2542

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    Any Red Flag law must require specific and harsh penalties for wrongful accusations!!!!!

    But how do you prove it? If the confiscation takes place and nothing bad happens, they must have worked. you can't prove something bad would have happened if they weren't taken away. The victim can claim it was malicious but you're right, on top of it being nearly impossible to verify, there's no repercussion.
     

    jcj54

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    I have a big problem with the no due process issue.
    Fifth Amendment:
    "No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law..."
     
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