Safe vs. Vault Door?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • IUKalash429

    Bullet Hose
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Apr 6, 2019
    1,080
    113
    Rum Ham
    If you caught/remember my intro post a few months back, I'm a recent transplant from the sandy southeastern US to Indiana. Holy smokes ... y'all have basements! Actually, I will too in a few weeks, after I close on a house.

    I've been researching and reviewing safes for quite awhile now (and yes, I realize you can't really have an INGO safe thread without mentioning Johnson). Well, it just dawned on me that with a finished basement comes the option of having a gun room instead of just a gun safe. Arguably for about the same price of if not cheaper than a high quality safe, it looks like I could invest in a vault door and some materials to fortify a small corner room in the basement, which at this point will serve no other purpose than general storage. If I go the safe route, it's going in that room regardless.

    So, long story short, what say the fine folks on INGO? Safe(s)? Vault door (and the necessary supplies to reinforce the interior walls/ceiling)? What do you think?
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    May 30, 2009
    17,878
    113
    Lafayette
    My preferrence would be the vault door, but you might want to research a bit more.
    I installed a vault door for a customer several years back.
    He went with one made by Browning.

    www.browning.com/products/gun-safes-and-pistol-vaults/vault-doors/security-door.html

    It was HEAVY!, 500lbs. It was also not cheap. We're talking over $4k for the door and keypad. NOT installation.
    From the outside, the door appears the same as any other 6-panel closet/bath/bedroom door in the house.
    It has a lever handle that is inactive, until you enter the correct code into the keypad situated behind a picture on the wall 12 feet away from the door.

    "Out of sight, out of mind" type of thing.
    It was a very nice option, and I would love to have one myself.
     

    n9tkf

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 18, 2018
    115
    28
    Just before the earth ends.
    I would have concerns of a fire on the floor above the gun safe room and the water running down in the basement. Also check with your insurance provider to see if they cover a vault room on your policy.
     

    red_zr24x4

    UA#190
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 14, 2009
    28,794
    113
    Walkerton
    Another thing to consider, if you move you can take the safe with you.
    Ideally, I'd like to have both. Vault door for the room because my reloading stuff is also in the same area, and safe for the guns.
     

    Chance

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Sep 25, 2009
    1,038
    129
    Berne
    If you build. "Fortified" area you will also have to deal with how to reinforce the roof of that area and moisture control. A strong box with a wooden roof isn't hard to get into. Humidity levels vary in our basements.
     

    DRob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    5,869
    83
    Southside of Indy
    Nephew just built a house with a "safe room" in the basement. Designed to withstand a tornado that destroys the rest of the house. Stores guns, survival food and water, and has enough room for his family. The vault door swings in so storm debris (worst case scenario) can't block them inside the room. Just a thought.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Finished mine this year.

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...aredness/457349-retrofit-safe-room-ideas.html

    Get yourself a copy of FEMA P320, use that as a starting point. That's geared toward tornadoes, but with some modifications can be upgraded for fire protection (add external sprinklers and layers of type X drywall), and intruder protection (add a vault door).


    I bought my door from Smith Safe, they're near Cleveland, so I just drove over with my truck. Fit and finish was decent, and the price was right.
     
    Last edited:

    ws6duramax

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Nov 21, 2011
    474
    59
    Metamora
    If the basement hasn't gone in yet , I would make the necessary changes to pour a couple extra walls and ceiling for the room . A lot less headache to do it now , than wishing you would have done it later .

    I had mine done earlier this year when my basement went in . I couldn't be happier , it all turned out great . You just need to decide on a door so you know the rough opening for the frame . I went with a door from Smith security safes in Ohio . Awesome door and great people to deal with . I waited to long before I ordered mine , so I had to put it in after the house was framed . That was a pain in the A$$ ! I think my door was roughly 7-800 lbs. It was a chore to get down the stairs , I don't have a walk out basement .

    This is the one I got . https://www.smithsecuritysafes.com/vault-doors/heavy-vault-door
     

    BE Mike

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Jul 23, 2008
    7,536
    113
    New Albany
    A buddy of mine is a general contractor and a gun guy. He says that for a walk-in vault with door, it is far better to have the vault built by someone who knows what they are doing while the home/ basement are being built rather than an addition to a completed home. The swing in doors are the best, as stated above. The vault serves more than one purpose and you can always put gun safes within.
     

    ACC

    Master
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    133   0   1
    Mar 7, 2012
    2,042
    113
    N. Side of Indy
    Until you know you are in a house for the long haul, go with a gun safe.

    If you ever build a house, then definitely do a designated room with a vault door. Believe me, the cost of fortifying a room and installing a vault door will exceed $5000 easily. You can get one hell of a safe for that kind of money.
     

    IUKalash429

    Bullet Hose
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Apr 6, 2019
    1,080
    113
    Rum Ham
    Fellas, thanks so much for the helpful input so far. It is greatly appreciated. House was built in the 90s and the basement is finished, so I'm talking room retrofit instead of new design. Plenty of information here to keep me busy with research and planning, but please feel free to keep the ideas and personal experiences coming!
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    A buddy of mine is a general contractor and a gun guy. He says that for a walk-in vault with door, it is far better to have the vault built by someone who knows what they are doing while the home/ basement are being built rather than an addition to a completed home. The swing in doors are the best, as stated above. The vault serves more than one purpose and you can always put gun safes within.

    Well, yeah.

    Especially when it comes to poured walls or concrete blocks. A slab can't support that w/o footers.
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    43   0   0
    May 30, 2009
    17,878
    113
    Lafayette
    For a retrofit, you might consider a Snap-Safe.

    www.snapsafe.com

    These are "modular" safes that you assemble in an existing room.
    They are built to your specs, so once installed they would need to be disassembled to remove from the room.
    Pretty neat idea, but I have no idea of the quality.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    For a retrofit, you might consider a Snap-Safe.

    www.snapsafe.com

    These are "modular" safes that you assemble in an existing room.
    They are built to your specs, so once installed they would need to be disassembled to remove from the room.
    Pretty neat idea, but I have no idea of the quality.
    AFAIK, I'm pretty sure they just offer a handful of fixed sizes. And I wonder how weak the joints are.


    They do also make a vault door.
    https://www.snapsafe.com/specialty-safes/vault-room-doors

    It's pretty lightweight - just 12 ga. steel; but cheap.
     

    schmart

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 10, 2014
    559
    47
    Lafayette
    So, long story short, what say the fine folks on INGO? Safe(s)? Vault door (and the necessary supplies to reinforce the interior walls/ceiling)? What do you think?

    IMO, part of the equation is determining how much protection you really need, and from what? Yes, as others have indicated, to make a viable vault, as thought of from a bank perspective, would be a VERY significant endeavor, especially as a retrofit. And although it would prevent theft except in the most extreme of cases (i.e. having heavy machinery to assist) and fire do you need THAT much protection from theft. If you have a $100K+ gun collection... maybe. However, when considering a safe, does it give as much protection as the vault? I surmise no, and that with only hand tools (including battery powered) most safes can be breached. A zip wheel on a grinder will simply cut out the side of a safe pretty quickly. If not properly bolted down, it can be tipped over and the entire thing taken and opened elsewhere. It really is only a matter of how much time the thief has.

    Once you recognize the issues with a safe, I question whether it is required to go all the way to a vault to have a viable secure storage solution, that could also provide storm protection... Hollow 4" "halite" (thats what my Dad called them when I was growning up.. don't see a reference to that name now) blocks sandwiched between 2x4 walls both sides, make it difficult to break down with a sledge hammer, basically having to pulverize the entire opening, not just knock the block out. Put metal mesh between every layer, and perhaps some verticle rebar, simply to make a metal maze that has to be removed to get through. You don't have to worry about load bearing capacity, it just has to hold itself up. Yeah, the ceiling is simply the floor joists of the floor above... but are you really worried someone is going to take a saws-all to the structure of your house? If you are, line 2x4s up so they would have to cut through 3 1/2" to get in (about $2.50/sq ft).

    Treat the interior of the room as a fire corridor in commercial construction, and you can easily get just as much fire proofing as a typical safe. You will then also have a shelter for severe weather, much more secure storage area, and I think a worthwhile endeavor. Just think outside the box somewhat and don't give up on the dream! :rockwoot:

    --Rick
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    IMO, part of the equation is determining how much protection you really need, and from what? Yes, as others have indicated, to make a viable vault, as thought of from a bank perspective, would be a VERY significant endeavor, especially as a retrofit. And although it would prevent theft except in the most extreme of cases (i.e. having heavy machinery to assist) and fire do you need THAT much protection from theft. If you have a $100K+ gun collection... maybe. However, when considering a safe, does it give as much protection as the vault? I surmise no, and that with only hand tools (including battery powered) most safes can be breached. A zip wheel on a grinder will simply cut out the side of a safe pretty quickly. If not properly bolted down, it can be tipped over and the entire thing taken and opened elsewhere. It really is only a matter of how much time the thief has.

    Once you recognize the issues with a safe, I question whether it is required to go all the way to a vault to have a viable secure storage solution, that could also provide storm protection... Hollow 4" "halite" (thats what my Dad called them when I was growning up.. don't see a reference to that name now) blocks sandwiched between 2x4 walls both sides, make it difficult to break down with a sledge hammer, basically having to pulverize the entire opening, not just knock the block out. Put metal mesh between every layer, and perhaps some verticle rebar, simply to make a metal maze that has to be removed to get through. You don't have to worry about load bearing capacity, it just has to hold itself up. Yeah, the ceiling is simply the floor joists of the floor above... but are you really worried someone is going to take a saws-all to the structure of your house? If you are, line 2x4s up so they would have to cut through 3 1/2" to get in (about $2.50/sq ft).

    Treat the interior of the room as a fire corridor in commercial construction, and you can easily get just as much fire proofing as a typical safe. You will then also have a shelter for severe weather, much more secure storage area, and I think a worthwhile endeavor. Just think outside the box somewhat and don't give up on the dream! :rockwoot:

    --Rick
    Reasonable advice, but if it's a tornado shelter, then it absolutely must be able to support the collapsed house above.
     

    Alamo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Oct 4, 2010
    8,091
    113
    Texas
    A walk-in gun room would be terrific.

    My 2 cents are:

    - If you want a serious vault, go with a tornado-grade shelter and a solid (not necessarily "vault") door.

    Or, less expensively:

    - Wall off one end of the basement all the way across, perhaps with concrete block, face it with 2x4s and drywall, and put in a solid (again, not necessarily "vault") door with substantial lock/bolts. Hide the door in some manner so it looks like part of the wall -- paneling, shelves, entertainment center -- in effect making a hidden room. Best security is the burglar not even knowing you have a gun vault. Perhaps for distraction put a Stack-On against one wall with a cheap non-functional firearm and some cheap jewelry, take pictures and serial numbers and keep in an envelope elsewhere. Give the burglar a reason to not keep looking for stuff.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    A walk-in gun room would be terrific.

    My 2 cents are:

    - If you want a serious vault, go with a tornado-grade shelter and a solid (not necessarily "vault") door.

    Or, less expensively:

    - Wall off one end of the basement all the way across, perhaps with concrete block, face it with 2x4s and drywall, and put in a solid (again, not necessarily "vault") door with substantial lock/bolts. Hide the door in some manner so it looks like part of the wall -- paneling, shelves, entertainment center -- in effect making a hidden room. Best security is the burglar not even knowing you have a gun vault. Perhaps for distraction put a Stack-On against one wall with a cheap non-functional firearm and some cheap jewelry, take pictures and serial numbers and keep in an envelope elsewhere. Give the burglar a reason to not keep looking for stuff.

    I present the walk-through gun safe:
    Walk-Though-Safe-3.jpg
     

    IUKalash429

    Bullet Hose
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Apr 6, 2019
    1,080
    113
    Rum Ham
    IMO, part of the equation is determining how much protection you really need, and from what?

    Great points. Ultimately, some things that come to mind (in no particular order) for a vault door are:

    A) I'll have an empty corner room in the basement that for my needs serves no purpose other than storage.
    B) That's where I would put a safe anyway, and knowing myself, I'll probably wind up with a second safe at some point.
    C) Furnace, water heater, etc. are in another room in the opposite corner of the basement.
    D) One (or two) high-quality safes are going to be heavy as hell and even more difficult to get down there. And, God forbid, up again should I ever have to move.
    E) A vault door would basically give me unlimited space relative to the room, which seems ideal over the safe(s). I'd have space to reload, space to can, storage space, and so forth.
    F) I'm not looking for total panic room/tornado shelter/SHTF/Fort Knox/ADX Florence security, but calculate I could achieve the same level of gun security by reinforcing the walls and ceiling for likely less than the cost of a good Johnson/Sturdy/etc. safe, depending on the total cost of the vault door and delivery/installation/etc., while also achieving more flexibility than what a safe can offer. I'm a fan of layered security, and enjoy all the necessary monitoring systems, cameras, lighting, loud dogs, and whatnot. Also, the interior door leading down to the basement is solid core and I could always add a deadbolt to that as well.

    I'm still not dead set on a vault, although the above reasons probably sound like it ... it's just an interesting idea that would allow for more space and freedom in the room, and honestly sounds like kind of a fun project (foot entering mouth?). One other point - I realize a move would mean the vault stays behind, and the cost of that is definitely not lost on me (doubtful the house would command a premium to many for some "doomsday prepper").
     
    Top Bottom