Hello all, I made this account specifically to leave an updated account of PSA's South Bend restriction on >15 round rifle magazines. I've found multiple threads with various dates throughout the years, but with little definitive information or response from PSA so my goal with this post is to update anyone in South Bend that's run into this issue and my efforts therein to get their ridiculous policy updated. Beware; incoming wall of text!
I first got in contact with PSA customer service via email after getting no shipping updates on my order of 10 D&H 30 round aluminum magazines over a week after purchase. They got back to me the next business day.
This was their response:
[FONT=&]Hello James,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Thank you for your patience and for bringing this matter to our attention.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]We looked into your order for you and found that your order is on hold due to non-compliance for South Bend, IN having a 15 round magazine limit and your order is for 10 - 30 round magazines.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Are you an FFL Dealer or a LEO?[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you are an FFL Dealer or LEO, please respond with the appropriate documentation so we can update your order and get things processed and shipped for you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you are neither an FFL Dealer or LEO, we would have to cancel your order due to the non-compliance. Please respond to this email with confirmation of cancellation, if not able to provide documentation of being an FFL Dealer/LEO, so we can go ahead and take care of that for you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Best Regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Jordan[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Palmetto State Armory Customer Service[/FONT]
[FONT=&](803) 724-6950[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Customer.Service@palmettostatearmory.com[/FONT]
This obviously came as a shock to me, considering you can purchase said supposed contraband from any local gunshop. So I did some research. And responded to this email in kind, with my evidence, in hopes that maybe I could succeed where others seemingly failed an get their policy updated.
My email to Jordan at PSA:
[FONT=&]Hello Jordan,
Thank you for your response, though it comes as a surprise to me. I was unaware of any such ban on magazines in South Bend, IN, as it is possible for me to go to several gun stores in town and purchase magazines exceeding 15 rounds in capacity. As a matter of fact, I recently ordered a rifle from https://grabagun.com/ that came with a 30 rounds magazine, and there where no issues brought up with this purchase due to my residence in South Bend.
After looking into the issue a bit, it seems the information you are referring to was a city ordinance put in place on Feb. 21 1994. This however was repealed in it's entirety on June 27, 2011, a whole eight years ago. I will attach a link to the specific code below:
https://library.municode.com/in/sou...UHITA_CH13OFMIPR_ART10FIPUME&showChanges=true
However, I've also found in threads on https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/legislation-2nd-amendment/71535-south-bend-9.html dated from 2013 that several of your potential customers even after getting in contact with you and explaining the situation were still turned down by your customer service due to this outdated policy.
My hope in explaining all of this to you Jordan, is that your company policy may be updated after being outdated for more than eight years. I very recently have purchased my rifle and am interested in using Palmetto State Armory for upgrades in the future, please let me know who I may contact or what information I must provide in an effort to resolve the matter.
Respectfully,
James
[/FONT]
Two days go by, and this is their response:
[FONT=&]Hello james,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]While your state laws may have updated, we cannot ship those magazines to you, based on our Company Policy. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you cannot provide the paperwork requested by CSR Jordan, we will have to cancel your order for a refund, as the items you have ordered go against the policies listed in our Terms and Conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Best Regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Dylan[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Palmetto State Armory Customer Service[/FONT]
[FONT=&](803) 724-6950[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Customer.Service@palmettostatearmory.com[/FONT]
Understandable, ridiculous though it may be, but I refuse to accept defeat. Also I want my mags.
[FONT=&]Dylan,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] Thanks again for the prompt reply, disappointing though it may be to me. I find it confusing that, after looking at your magazine shipment policy in full, your company would maintain the out dated policy pertaining to South Bend's nearly decade old (and repealed) city ordinance yet cite updated or new restrictions in several cities and states which postdate the repeal in South Bend. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] I understand that at this point it is solely your policy not to ship to a South Bend address, but what I do not understand is how your process for vetting state and city policy pertains only to new restrictions, while not including the lifting of those restrictions that expire or are otherwise repealed. Considering that every community you unfairly restrict is lost revenue, (the links I posted I feel demonstrate this is not only an issue that's potentially lost you my sale, but the sales of many others) why is it that these updates on policy that are evidently being made, only go one way.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] I have no FFL or LEO documentation to send you, as these are not required to purchase or possess rifle magazines in excess of 15 rounds capacity within South Bend, IN. I am still interested in moving forward with this purchase, however if you are unable to do anything with the information I have provided you, and are unable to get me in contact with someone with whom I could discuss getting your policy updated, I understand and accept the refund. However, I feel that in light of all of this it would be unreasonable for me to pay a 5% restocking fee for an issue I had no logical reason to expect would exist.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Respectfully, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]James[/FONT]
Their magazine shipment policy, for reference:
It is the customerÂ’s responsibility for understanding state laws regarding magazine capacities. Customers ordering magazines that are illegal to own in their state will have their orders cancelled and will be charged a 5% restocking fee.
STATES WITH APPLIED MAGAZINE RESTRICTIONS
I will update the thread with a conclusion to the saga when I receive it, though I anticipate it not to go in my favor
I first got in contact with PSA customer service via email after getting no shipping updates on my order of 10 D&H 30 round aluminum magazines over a week after purchase. They got back to me the next business day.
This was their response:
[FONT=&]Hello James,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Thank you for your patience and for bringing this matter to our attention.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]We looked into your order for you and found that your order is on hold due to non-compliance for South Bend, IN having a 15 round magazine limit and your order is for 10 - 30 round magazines.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Are you an FFL Dealer or a LEO?[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you are an FFL Dealer or LEO, please respond with the appropriate documentation so we can update your order and get things processed and shipped for you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you are neither an FFL Dealer or LEO, we would have to cancel your order due to the non-compliance. Please respond to this email with confirmation of cancellation, if not able to provide documentation of being an FFL Dealer/LEO, so we can go ahead and take care of that for you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Best Regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Jordan[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Palmetto State Armory Customer Service[/FONT]
[FONT=&](803) 724-6950[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Customer.Service@palmettostatearmory.com[/FONT]
This obviously came as a shock to me, considering you can purchase said supposed contraband from any local gunshop. So I did some research. And responded to this email in kind, with my evidence, in hopes that maybe I could succeed where others seemingly failed an get their policy updated.
My email to Jordan at PSA:
[FONT=&]Hello Jordan,
Thank you for your response, though it comes as a surprise to me. I was unaware of any such ban on magazines in South Bend, IN, as it is possible for me to go to several gun stores in town and purchase magazines exceeding 15 rounds in capacity. As a matter of fact, I recently ordered a rifle from https://grabagun.com/ that came with a 30 rounds magazine, and there where no issues brought up with this purchase due to my residence in South Bend.
After looking into the issue a bit, it seems the information you are referring to was a city ordinance put in place on Feb. 21 1994. This however was repealed in it's entirety on June 27, 2011, a whole eight years ago. I will attach a link to the specific code below:
https://library.municode.com/in/sou...UHITA_CH13OFMIPR_ART10FIPUME&showChanges=true
However, I've also found in threads on https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/legislation-2nd-amendment/71535-south-bend-9.html dated from 2013 that several of your potential customers even after getting in contact with you and explaining the situation were still turned down by your customer service due to this outdated policy.
My hope in explaining all of this to you Jordan, is that your company policy may be updated after being outdated for more than eight years. I very recently have purchased my rifle and am interested in using Palmetto State Armory for upgrades in the future, please let me know who I may contact or what information I must provide in an effort to resolve the matter.
Respectfully,
James
[/FONT]
Two days go by, and this is their response:
[FONT=&]Hello james,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]While your state laws may have updated, we cannot ship those magazines to you, based on our Company Policy. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]If you cannot provide the paperwork requested by CSR Jordan, we will have to cancel your order for a refund, as the items you have ordered go against the policies listed in our Terms and Conditions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Best Regards,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Dylan[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Palmetto State Armory Customer Service[/FONT]
[FONT=&](803) 724-6950[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Customer.Service@palmettostatearmory.com[/FONT]
Understandable, ridiculous though it may be, but I refuse to accept defeat. Also I want my mags.
[FONT=&]Dylan,[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] Thanks again for the prompt reply, disappointing though it may be to me. I find it confusing that, after looking at your magazine shipment policy in full, your company would maintain the out dated policy pertaining to South Bend's nearly decade old (and repealed) city ordinance yet cite updated or new restrictions in several cities and states which postdate the repeal in South Bend. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] I understand that at this point it is solely your policy not to ship to a South Bend address, but what I do not understand is how your process for vetting state and city policy pertains only to new restrictions, while not including the lifting of those restrictions that expire or are otherwise repealed. Considering that every community you unfairly restrict is lost revenue, (the links I posted I feel demonstrate this is not only an issue that's potentially lost you my sale, but the sales of many others) why is it that these updates on policy that are evidently being made, only go one way.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] I have no FFL or LEO documentation to send you, as these are not required to purchase or possess rifle magazines in excess of 15 rounds capacity within South Bend, IN. I am still interested in moving forward with this purchase, however if you are unable to do anything with the information I have provided you, and are unable to get me in contact with someone with whom I could discuss getting your policy updated, I understand and accept the refund. However, I feel that in light of all of this it would be unreasonable for me to pay a 5% restocking fee for an issue I had no logical reason to expect would exist.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]Respectfully, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]James[/FONT]
Their magazine shipment policy, for reference:
It is the customerÂ’s responsibility for understanding state laws regarding magazine capacities. Customers ordering magazines that are illegal to own in their state will have their orders cancelled and will be charged a 5% restocking fee.
STATES WITH APPLIED MAGAZINE RESTRICTIONS
[*=left]California — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]Colorado — No magazines greater than 15 rounds, effective July 1st, 2013
[*=left]Boulder — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]Connecticut — 10 Rounds and less with a valid permit.
[*=left]Hawaii — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]Illinois (North Chicago) — No magazines greater than 16 rounds
[*=left]Aurora, Skokie, Chicago, Evanston — No magazines greater than 15 rounds
[*=left]Highland Park, Cook County, Dolton, Homewood, Deerfield — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]Deerfield — No shotgun magazines over 5 rounds
[*=left]Indiana (South Bend) — No magazines greater than 15 rounds
[*=left]Maryland — No magazines greater than 10 rounds October 1st, 2013
[*=left]Massachusetts — No sales. PSA will not ship ANY items to the state of Massachusetts.
[*=left]New York — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]New Jersey — No magazines greater than 10 rounds
[*=left]Vermont — No magazines over 10 rounds will be shipped as of April 13, 2018. No pistol magazines over 15 rounds effective immediately.
[*=left]Washington D.C. — No Sales.PSA will not ship ANY items to the District of Columbia
I will update the thread with a conclusion to the saga when I receive it, though I anticipate it not to go in my favor
