SAf: Treat all evidence as if it were loaded, keep pointed in safe direction...

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  • Alamo

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    [FONT=&amp]Senior state advocate Addelaid Ferreira-Watt died after the freak shooting at the Ixopo Regional Court [in South Africa] when the shotgun dropped and blasted her in the left hip, News24 reported.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    “It is alleged that the weapon was brought to court to be entered as evidence in a house robbery case when it accidentally discharged in court,” a police spokesman told the website.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]

    Court staff desperately tried to stop the bleeding, but the 51-year-old mother-of-one later died in hospital. South African police are investigating a possible case of culpable homicide and are working to find out why the shotgun was still loaded.[/FONT]

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/lawyer-dies-after-being-shot-by-gun-presented-as-evidence-in-court/news-story/c11ad06eb53076a118b1a6b7a7b8a4ef
     

    churchmouse

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    So in this insane world of gun violence no one in the evidence chain ever checked the weapon.

    Or someone set it up to go bang in the courtroom.
     

    HoughMade

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    In law school, a fellow student brought a S & W J frame to use as a prop for a trial practice exercise- closing arguments. He started waiving it around and the professor, myself and a couple of others expressed our displeasure in no uncertain terms and at various level of physical intervention. At least it wasn't loaded. the guy who did this said: "it's no problem it doesn't work." Not good enough.

    People do stupid things....and I had always heard that the guy was a felon, so....
     

    Alamo

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    So in this insane world of gun violence no one in the evidence chain ever checked the weapon.

    Or someone set it up to go bang in the courtroom.

    I'm going with "incompetence".

    On a Texas forum one member recounted being a juror in a robbery trial listening to the ADA's spiel, when I guess to emphasize the fear that the victim felt, the ADA pointed the evidentiary handgun in the juror's face.

    Juror finished the trial, but I don't believe I would have let that pass unremarked.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Everyone knows the solution is to yell "eet ain't loaded" with your upper front teeth over your bottom lip when some boring safety nanny tells you that ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.
     

    indykid

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    Sadly it was pointed in a safe direction until some butter finger dropped it. Like all have said and agree, that shotgun should have been checked 5 times by everyone who touched it and it still should have been secured and handled as if loaded.
     

    Alamo

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    I would bet you a tenderloin sandwich that very nearly every lawyer, barrister, judge, magistrate, bailiff, defense lawyer, defendant, prosecutor, juror, and gender-indeterminate person pushing a mop in that building -- every one of them with advanced education and degrees except perhaps for the defendant, the juror, and the mop pusher -- thought "eet ain't loaded". It doesn't take a hillbilly background to be ignorant, and skill in one field does not automatically transfer to another.
     

    HoughMade

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    I would bet you a tenderloin sandwich that very nearly every lawyer, barrister, judge, magistrate, bailiff, defense lawyer, defendant, prosecutor, juror, and gender-indeterminate person pushing a mop in that building -- every one of them with advanced education and degrees except perhaps for the defendant, the juror, and the mop pusher -- thought "eet ain't loaded". It doesn't take a hillbilly background to be ignorant, and skill in one field does not automatically transfer to another.

    I have to believe that people who work in any aspect of criminal justice in South Africa has a more than passing familiarity with firearms.
     

    DeadeyeChrista'sdad

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    . On a Texas forum one member recounted being a juror in a robbery trial listening to the ADA's spiel, when I guess to emphasize the fear that the victim felt, the ADA pointed the evidentiary handgun in the juror's face.

    The proper response, of course, is to relocate the ADA's front teeth.
     

    KellyinAvon

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    EET AIN'T LO-DEAD

    O S EET IZ

    C M E D B D BRASS?

    L I B!!

    EET IZ LO-DEAD
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    It WAS pointed in a safe direction and then it was dropped.

    Let's stop playing games and start saving lives. The gun is loaded, and stop rationalizing stupidity and recklessness.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    When I had the 5 year old with the canoe'd forehead, when they were dragging him away for shooting through the wall in a safe direction, he said "it was my right".

    Let's stop purposefully being dangerous just to be cool and different and teach the Four Rules so no one else has to see those photos.
     

    cbhausen

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    See NRA Rule #3...

    Tell me Kirk, which one of Cooper’s four rules would’ve prevented a loaded and dropped handgun from discharging?
     
    Last edited:

    Kirk Freeman

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    See NRA Rule #3...

    Tell me Kirk, which one of Cooper’s four rules would’ve prevented a loaded and dropped handgun from discharging?

    Rule #1: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

    It applies to shotguns too.

    Hey, have I told you about the 870 at Shootrite and how guns can go bang without fingers on triggers?
     

    cbhausen

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    I know guns can go bang without fingers on triggers. Hasn’t happened in my presence but I do know of a story where someone closed the action on a loaded shotgun and it discharged into a nearby wall with stacked firewood on the other side. Fortunately this was a safe direction whether intentional or not.

    I still fail to see how how pretending all guns are always loaded or saying we should treat all guns as if they are loaded all the time constitutes a rule.

    And (respectfully) you still haven’t answered my question: how would observance of Cooper’s first rule have prevented the shootings you always bring up? Please spare us be hillbilly spellings.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    I know guns can go bang without fingers on triggers. Hasn’t happened in my presence but I do know of a story where someone closed the action on a loaded shotgun and it discharged into a nearby wall with stacked firewood on the other side. Fortunately this was a safe direction whether intentional or not.

    I still fail to see how how pretending all guns are always loaded or saying we should treat all guns as if they are loaded all the time constitutes a rule.

    And (respectfully) you still haven’t answered my question: how would observance of Cooper’s first rule have prevented the shootings you always bring up? Please spare us be hillbilly spellings.

    Every time, every single time, they want to argue. Ok, here we go:

    You treat the gun as loaded so BEFORE you wheel the frickin' GUN into the courtroom on the little cart you check to ensure it is unloaded. "Safe direction" is subjective (like the guy I had that shot the 5 year old, it was his right to shoot his SKS in a safe direction because he did not see the 5 year old) and does not account for falling guns.

    Never assume the gun is unloaded. Once it hits the hand you can pretend that the ammo fairy loads it. If you have a mental affliction that prevents abstract thought (I know some do, I have been in the gun culture a long time), then just make it a routine and part of your character.

    This is VERY, VERY basic. It need not be argued, but this is INGO and, for whatever reason, people want to contest being safe with guns, because of looking cool or mental ticks or what have you.

    Stop justifying reckless behavior by wanting to put your own mark on gun safety. Follow the Four Rules, even if it is not cool.
     
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