Defensive AR15 (sbr/pistol/carbine) discussion

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  • Ggreen

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    Sep 19, 2016
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    This doesn't really fit into any other category. Looking for input on builds, training, and accessories you find important in a defensive AR15.

    Extremely interested in classes you found helpful.

    I'll start

    11.5" 5.56 pistol built on a matched lord arms billet reciever set.
    Aim surplus bcg, and bbl with pinned gas block.
    Aimpoint aco, yhm buis, streamlight hlx
    Bootleg rail (very slick integrated rail sections)
    Pws h2 buffer, flat spring.
    Topped off with a witt machine 223 canooter suppressor.

    This thing shoots so flat and soft, it is crazy. I need to do some ammo testing on self defense rounds to see what I'm going to keep in it while it's locked beside the bed.

    20200114161507.jpg
     

    Brad69

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    Jul 16, 2016
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    Revere Riders Carbine class!

    I attend about three AR type classes a year you can spend more money and receive less from some of the big names.

    When it comes to fighting with a AR handling one at close range and shooting at 3 yards or less is key IMO.
    I assume that most people know how to engage at 25 yards and up.
    Also look at ballistics 5.56 drops off quick in short barrels.
     

    Ggreen

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    Revere Riders Carbine class!

    I attend about three AR type classes a year you can spend more money and receive less from some of the big names.

    When it comes to fighting with a AR handling one at close range and shooting at 3 yards or less is key IMO.
    I assume that most people know how to engage at 25 yards and up.
    Also look at ballistics 5.56 drops off quick in short barrels.

    Yeah 11.5 is still carrying 950ish ft/lbs worth 55gr. i need to find a defensive ammo I like.

    I want to get to a carbine course, are shorter bbls welcome? They can get kind of obnoxious on a packed firing line.
     

    nad63

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    I want to get to a carbine course, are shorter bbls welcome? They can get kind of obnoxious on a packed firing line.
    Obviously I can’t vouch for other courses but if you are doing a RR carbine class you are welcome to rock it out.
    Your OP stated you were gonna run it suppressed tho.
    Either way a RR Carbine class is a great way to wring it out and see what works for YOU.
    RR classes are in the buffer for being released and I’m aware there’s at least one Carbine class in the works.
     

    MCgrease08

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    Mar 14, 2013
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    Revere Riders Carbine class!

    I attend about three AR type classes a year you can spend more money and receive less from some of the big names.

    When it comes to fighting with a AR handling one at close range and shooting at 3 yards or less is key IMO.
    I assume that most people know how to engage at 25 yards and up.
    Also look at ballistics 5.56 drops off quick in short barrels.

    Obviously I can’t vouch for other courses but if you are doing a RR carbine class you are welcome to rock it out.
    Your OP stated you were gonna run it suppressed tho.
    Either way a RR Carbine class is a great way to wring it out and see what works for YOU.
    RR classes are in the buffer for being released and I’m aware there’s at least one Carbine class in the works.

    What these guys said. The RR carbine class is well worth the time and money investment and a safe place to test out your gear.

    For me, that means an AR made by a quality manufacturer using quality parts, iron sights and a sling.

    It's the Indian, not the arrow.
     

    rootbeer506

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    Jan 12, 2020
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    NOBLESVILLE
    I think you have to evaluate your needs and potential defensive scenarios.

    Living in a neighborhood jam packed with houses, using an AR doesn't make sense for me. I want something small with a light on it because it won't need shouldered.

    If I lived on 5 acres I'd want an AR
     

    daddyusmaximus

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    Aug 21, 2013
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    Here is my reasoning behind my choice of both weapon, and ammo for home defense. For me, an AR, especially an SBR, is the absolute perfect weapon for home defense. It's my choice anyway. Two main things you need are something you can hit the target with, and something that once you hit that target, is powerful enough to stop the threat quickly.

    First thing... hitting your target. Well, it's day half the time, and night half the time. Add to that the proclivity of bad guys liking to come a knocking when you are asleep, so they get the jump on you, and a weapon mounted light is a must have. AND the very last thing you want to do is shoot at a dark shape of some guy roaming around in your living room at 2am, just to find out it's your son home from college on a surprise visit... Be it handgun, rifle, shotgun, SBR, or AR pistol... get a weapon mounted light.

    Also, although most of carry a handgun daily, the reason we do so is because it's too inconvenient to walk around with a long gun strapped across out back. After all what is a handgun for? To fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down. Hey, we have to make allowances for daily life. Sure you can use a handgun to defend your home, but you're at home... no need now to saddle yourself with a secondary choice in a defensive weapon. Choose a primary defensive weapon, a rifle...

    One like an AR, purpose built for combating bad guys. Now I have a lifetime of experience with the AR system because I served 28 years in the Army, so that has obviously colored my feelings for the system, but it hasn't changed the facts about the system itself. It's a very light weight, and light recoiling system. It's easy to learn to use, shoot, and maintain. It's very accurate. It's the most modular system out there, and can be configured to suit any end user's taste or mission needs.

    Using a rifle gets you 4 points of contact with the weapon as you shoot it. Both hands, your shoulder, and your face. It's the most stable platform from witch to fire a projectile from. Hitting your target with a rifle requires much less practice than it does with a hand gun. They also fire more powerful rounds, and have better sights. There is no comparison that the rifle is the better weapon at stopping the threat.

    In a home, however, I prefer the smaller package of an AR pistol, or the SBR. You still have all the stability, and power of the rifle, just not the long range. You also now have the ability to better move about in the confines of the structure without having the longer barrel banging into things, and it should help cut the weight down so it handles quicker.

    OK, we have an SBR AR with a light. Now what? Get a red dot sight. There is no faster method of target acquisition on God's green Earth, than a red dot. I'm not kidding. I swear that a red dot saved my life in Iraq. TWICE. Not that it made me the BETTER shooter, but that it allowed me to get the shot off FIRST. I'm cross eye dominant too. Right handed, and left eye dominant... doesn't matter. Mount the gun, keep both eyes open, you see the red dot, and your brain does the rest for you.

    Get an SBR or pistol AR, equip it with a light, and a red dot, and you're golden. (well, besides training with it)

    OK, now you can hit your target, and quickly. Select a round that can stop the threat. You took the time and effort to get a proper rifle based weapon, don't screw it up now and do it in a stupid pistol caliber like 9mm... Stick with 5.56, or .300 blackout. Oh, and if you choose the .300, don't shoot the subs for defensive work... that's the same as shooting pistol rounds like .45ACP. Supersonic rounds only here.

    I have one of each. My SBR is an 11.3" .300 Blackout, and it's duty round is the 110gr Barns Vor-TX. I also have an AR pistol. A 10.3" 5.56 that shoots the 75gr Hornady TAP... or pretty much anything as it's a 5.56.

    I think ammo choice can be critical in some instances like if you are a police sniper and need to defeat a barrier to take out a bad guy, and rescue the hostage... but at across the room distance against some dirtbag trying to destroy your family... pretty much any full power rifle round is gonna have enough hydro-static shock to stop the threat. I do try to select a good round, and that's what I keep loaded on hand, but I don't stack them deep like I do the bulk of my stash of 193, and 855 that I can pick up for much less. I'm surely not gonna load up a light varmint round, as I do need something to penetrate and take out vitals... Last thing I want is a non-penetrating bullet... that was designed to penetrate.

    This is also where some people loose their freeking minds... penetration, or rather, overpenetration. The worry here is of liability. It is true that we are responsible for every round we fire, and I would hate to get involved in a legal mess after having just defended my family, but I would much more hate to have failed to have defended my family. Any criminal breaking into my home sets in motion the chain of events that follows. Events that THEY would be legally responsible for, so overpenetration is something I just don't worry about. I know the layout of my home. I know who should be in it at the time. These days, we're empty nesters, so it's pretty easy. I can pretty much tell where from where I am, where the furniture is, and therefore where other people may be within my home at any given time. Beyond that, I'm aiming center of mass, and shooting till the threat stops.

    The chance of a bad guy ever breaking into my home is pretty small.

    Then the chance of me being required to fire a weapon in defense in that case would also be small.

    The chance of there being an innocent person directly in line with the bad guy at that exact moment, would be infinitesimally small.

    Home defense.

    1. Get an AR.
    2. Make it an SBR or pistol.
    3. Stick with rifle caliber versions.
    4. Equip it with a light, and a red dot.
    5. Practice with it.
     
    Last edited:

    88E30M50

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    12   0   0
    Dec 29, 2008
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    Here is my reasoning behind my choice of both weapon, and ammo for home defense. For me, an AR, especially an SBR, is the absolute perfect weapon for home defense. It's my choice anyway. Two main things you need are something you can hit the target with, and something that once you hit that target, is powerful enough to stop the threat quickly.

    First thing... hitting your target. Well, it's day half the time, and night half the time. Add to that the proclivity of bad guys liking to come a knocking when you are asleep, so they get the jump on you, and a weapon mounted light is a must have. AND the very last thing you want to do is shoot at a dark shape of some guy roaming around in your living room at 2am, just to find out it's your son home from college on a surprise visit... Be it handgun, rifle, shotgun, SBR, or AR pistol... get a weapon mounted light.

    Also, although most of carry a handgun daily, the reason we do so is because it's too inconvenient to walk around with a long gun strapped across out back. After all what is a handgun for? To fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down. Hey, we have to make allowances for daily life. Sure you can use a handgun to defend your home, but you're at home... no need now to saddle yourself with a secondary choice in a defensive weapon. Choose a primary defensive weapon, a rifle...

    One like an AR, purpose built for combating bad guys. Now I have a lifetime of experience with the AR system because I served 28 years in the Army, so that has obviously colored my feelings for the system, but it hasn't changed the facts about the system itself. It's a very light weight, and light recoiling system. It's easy to learn to use, shoot, and maintain. It's very accurate. It's the most modular system out there, and can be configured to suit any end user's taste or mission needs.

    Using a rifle gets you 4 points of contact with the weapon as you shoot it. Both hands, your shoulder, and your face. It's the most stable platform from witch to fire a projectile from. Hitting your target with a rifle requires much less practice than it does with a hand gun. They also fire more powerful rounds, and have better sights. There is no comparison that the rifle is the better weapon at stopping the threat.

    In a home, however, I prefer the smaller package of an AR pistol, or the SBR. You still have all the stability, and power of the rifle, just not the long range. You also now have the ability to better move about in the confines of the structure without having the longer barrel banging into things, and it should help cut the weight down so it handles quicker.

    OK, we have an SBR AR with a light. Now what? Get a red dot sight. There is no faster method of target acquisition on God's green Earth, than a red dot. I'm not kidding. I swear that a red dot saved my life in Iraq. TWICE. Not that it made me the BETTER shooter, but that it allowed me to get the shot off FIRST. I'm cross eye dominant too. Right handed, and left eye dominant... doesn't matter. Mount the gun, keep both eyes open, you see the red dot, and your brain does the rest for you.

    Get an SBR or pistol AR, equip it with a light, and a red dot, and you're golden. (well, besides training with it)

    OK, now you can hit your target, and quickly. Select a round that can stop the threat. You took the time and effort to get a proper rifle based weapon, don't screw it up now and do it in a stupid pistol caliber like 9mm... Stick with 5.56, or .300 blackout. Oh, and if you choose the .300, don't shoot the subs for defensive work... that's the same as shooting pistol rounds like .45ACP. Supersonic rounds only here.

    I have one of each. My SBR is an 11.3" .300 Blackout, and it's duty round is the 110gr Barns Vor-TX. I also have an AR pistol. A 10.3" 5.56 that shoots the 75gr Hornady TAP... or pretty much anything as it's a 5.56.

    I think ammo choice can be critical in some instances like if you are a police sniper and need to defeat a barrier to take out a bad guy, and rescue the hostage... but at across the room distance against some dirtbag trying to destroy your family... pretty much any full power rifle round is gonna have enough hydro-static shock to stop the threat. I do try to select a good round, and that's what I keep loaded on hand, but I don't stack them deep like I do the bulk of my stash of 193, and 855 that I can pick up for much less. I'm surely not gonna load up a light varmint round, as I do need something to penetrate and take out vitals... Last thing I want is a non-penetrating bullet... that was designed to penetrate.

    This is also where some people loose their freeking minds... penetration, or rather, overpenetration. The worry here is of liability. It is true that we are responsible for every round we fire, and I would hate to get involved in a legal mess after having just defended my family, but I would much more hate to have failed to have defended my family. Any criminal breaking into my home sets in motion the chain of events that follows. Events that THEY would be legally responsible for, so overpenetration is something I just don't worry about. I know the layout of my home. I know who should be in it at the time. These days, we're empty nesters, so it's pretty easy. I can pretty much tell where from where I am, where the furniture is, and therefore where other people may be within my home at any given time. Beyond that, I'm aiming center of mass, and shooting till the threat stops.

    The chance of a bad guy ever breaking into my home is pretty small.

    Then the chance of me being required to fire a weapon in defense in that case would also be small.

    The chance of there being an innocent person directly in line with the bad guy at that exact moment, would be infinitesimally small.

    Home defense.

    1. Get an AR.
    2. Make it an SBR or pistol.
    3. Stick with rifle caliber versions.
    4. Equip it with a light, and a red dot.
    5. Practice with it.

    The only thing I can add to this is to consider putting a can on the AR for HD use. You want to come out of the situation as intact as possible. Losing a good part of your hearing due to shooting a short barrel AR indoors close to folks you care about is avoidable.

    My HD setup is a .300BO AR pistol with a light, Eotech and suppressor. The gun is within 3 feet of me when I sleep but I keep a G21 with light on the nightstand in the off chance that I need to react instantly. Next to the G21 is my EDC so I can slip it back into the holster if I need to take the pup out at night. I’m happy with this setup but hope to never find out how well it works.
     

    Vigilant

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    I think you have to evaluate your needs and potential defensive scenarios.

    Living in a neighborhood jam packed with houses, using an AR doesn't make sense for me. I want something small with a light on it because it won't need shouldered.

    If I lived on 5 acres I'd want an AR
    Do you have ANY idea of what you are talking about?
     

    daddyusmaximus

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    82   1   0
    Aug 21, 2013
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    Remington
    The only thing I can add to this is to consider putting a can on the AR for HD use. You want to come out of the situation as intact as possible. Losing a good part of your hearing due to shooting a short barrel AR indoors close to folks you care about is avoidable.

    My HD setup is a .300BO AR pistol with a light, Eotech and suppressor. The gun is within 3 feet of me when I sleep but I keep a G21 with light on the nightstand in the off chance that I need to react instantly. Next to the G21 is my EDC so I can slip it back into the holster if I need to take the pup out at night. I’m happy with this setup but hope to never find out how well it works.


    Same here kinda. My Glock 17 with TLR1 sits on the night stand. I could fire while IN BED if need be, but the SBR is right there in the corner. I can reach it as soon as my feet touch the floor. That's what I'm going for.


    I do want a can. In fact, in preparation for getting one, I've been putting compatible Surefire muzzle devices on all my guns so once I do have one, I can use the same one on several rifles... However, I'm not sure I'd use it for home defense. For training for home defense sure, but not so much for the actual event.

    In training I'll be shooting a lot, and I'll want to protect my already damaged hearing. I fully understand where you're coming from. I had to fire an AR inside a structure before. Inside a vehicle as well, so I can fully attest to just how loud it can be. That said, I was still able to communicate with my troops at the time. It wasn't til after things calmed down that I could hear my ears ringing. This was during war, when I was shooting a lot...

    Now for a home defense situation, even with multiple assailants, I can't see the engagement lasting very long, or me having to crank off more rounds than is in the one mag most likely, so I'll probably be OK to communicate. Yes, I could incur some more damage probably, but not enough in one instance to worry about, and the likelyhood of it happening at all is slight.

    Also, I kinda WANT the blast from the weapon to be loud. You touch off a boom stick inside a structure, and it's frightening. It could even give me an edge, at least to a less determined foe. This is an instance where I don't want to hide. This is the time to be the fire breathing dragon. This is MY house. GTFO.... Now! Better to put one bad guy down, and chase off the other two than to have to put down three. Also the noise may just alert my neighbor that something bad is going down over here. Now the cops are getting a 911 calls from the wife, AND the neighbors... They come that much quicker... and with more back up.

    But yeah, I do want a can... One day, when I'm not too scared to put down the money, and wait for 10 months...
     
    Last edited:

    Ggreen

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    I think a can is mandatory for any HD gun. It's less about communication and more about reducing damage to my family 's ears. Protecting my family is the whole purpose, a can is a key element.

    That wait only gets longer every month you wait.
     

    88E30M50

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    Thought that I’d post this short prayer here in the spirit of the thread:


    Now I lay me down to sleep
    I pray my soul the Lord shall keep
    If my home, they will invade
    Harm to us I have forbade
    Mayhem surely will then come
    To hell dispatch the worthless scum
    I do not seek this violent fight
    To protect family, I’ll do what’s right
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Mar 9, 2008
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    Lafayette, Indiana
    As to the platform hardware: the AR-15 is about the bcg and the barrel.

    Key in testing: does it go bang every time you press the trigger.

    As to platform software: like any other firearm, trigger and sights.

    I like:

    ►rigid stock, many out there
    ►trigger, single stage, I use the ACT from ALG
    ►sights, Troy fan here. I like an F marked tower (that Armalite of mine is not and it plays all kinds of havoc shooting irons). Many great optics. I am LPVO fan.
    ►pistol grip: something that covers the gap. Magpul MOE, Tango Down, Duckbill, inter alia. I have a BCM on one of my Colts, it is just fine.
    ►charging handle, our common enemy, many great ones. I have Radian, Gieselle and BCM. Ambis are cool but not controlling
    ►sling, carry strap, canteen strap, Vickers sling (like this a lot), etc. I like it soft so it clings to clothing in class.
    ►flash suppressor, A2 is cool, many good ones now.
    ►light, many good ones, I have Surefires

    I don't like:

    ►ambi safeties
    ►complicated slings
    ►the exploder, I realize the market demands it, so not controlling, does not stop me from not liking it

    Courses:

    Many good ones now. You will have to travel as the learning will not be in your front yard. Bring a buddy, helps everything. I went to class alone for years, it was less than optimal

    Mags:

    Lots of mags, many good ones. I bought a bunch of Big Army EPMs for $8 a pop last gun show. However, I use the OK Industr. Surefeed E2s (black and gray) and Magpuls.
     
    Last edited:
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