Smooth actions

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  • dononoso

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 19, 2020
    1
    1
    Ramona
    I’m not a bolt action guy, although I do own a few bolt .22’s. It seems to me the the Mauser and it’s variants, the Krag and a notable few others seem to be highly coveted because of the smooth actions. If these are so smooth in a 60-125 year old design and the machine work is so smooth, why aren’t there much better ones today? Our machining is certainly better. Barrels are better. Designs are improved and our knowledge of function and computer analysis of cartridge and harmonics is much better, so why wouldn’t manufacturers just build a better gun? With modern manufacturing technology, it should be able to easily make these better guns affordable to the average shooter and sportsman.

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    Last edited:

    Sniper 79

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Oct 7, 2012
    2,939
    48
    I do believe modern guns are better. See people all the time at the range with old bolt guns they sporterized and sunk tons of money into. I pull out a cheap newer Savage and blow the bull out of a target farther away. Really gets under their skin.

    Tell them buy any new gun and if you like tinkering hand load. Be much better off.
     
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Oct 3, 2008
    4,184
    149
    On a hill in Perry C
    A lot of it is simply age. Those old rifles have been cycled thousands of time and that has smoothed out a lot of minor flaws. Another factor is back then they spent a little more time hand fitting parts and polishing out any tool marks. While I'll agree most modern rifles are functionally and accuracy-wise as good as, if not better than, the antiques, they just don't have the feel of a hand fitted action.
    Even a higher end modern rifle just doesn't have that feel. I've got a couple of Tikkas, and those have a reputation for being veerrryyy smooth, but they still don't have the feel of a 110 year old Swedish 96. Give the newly made rifles a few years, yeah, they might compare then if they were well made to start with.
    One other thing to factor in is cost. To get that smoothness out of the box, the makers are going to have to spend a whole lot more time polishing and fitting parts. That amounts to big $. And in the end you'd end up with a $1500 rifle that functionally was no better than a $400 one. The bottom line ends up being that for every slicker than snot rifle sold they'd sell 25 or more somewhat smooth ones.

    Oh, and welcome to INGO!
     

    avboiler11

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Jun 12, 2011
    2,950
    119
    New Albany
    As far as factory rifles go, Tikka is BUTTER smooth.

    Savages are, have been and likely always will be terrible, new RR-serial 700s aren't a heck of a lot better. Ruger Americans are similar to a Tikka but substantially gritter, Bergaras are pretty nice. Never used a Howa.
     

    russc2542

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Oct 24, 2015
    2,111
    83
    Columbus
    New cars are better than old cars in 100 ways... on paper. yet how many people prefer the old ones still for the feel? Mercedes has engineers just to tune the feel of closing the doors so they don't feel too clunky or mushy, too light or too heavy, to make sure it doesn't feel too thin or too thick.

    Old guns machining was expensive and hand fitting was cheap (er) and the hand-fitters made sure it worked because that's what they were there for. machining and not hand fitting wasn't an option (think of peak-production wartime guns... usually a bit rough) and didn't cost much more to pay someone $1 a day.

    New stuff machining is cheap once the CNC is programmed but polishing and fitting is not (union wages, benefits, insurance, retirement, taxes, etc). the machining tolerances are better but the finish is imperfect. they can machine 100 guns 95% as good (not 95 are perfect and 5 are junk, all 100 are 95% as good...ish) for the price of fitting and polishing 1 by hand these days. So they make 100, 85 are are fine, 10 the owner doesn't know better, and 4 get sold as junk or they live with it, and 1 comes back for some polishing and tuning. How many manufacturers have gained the reputation that they aren't what they once were? that the guns are great after a trip back to the factory under warranty?

    Nowadays, guns that have that fitted, polished feel from the factory aren't machined any better (well... much) than the savages and remingtons, they just have an extra step at the end of the line to clean them up a little and check for those last 5 redirect to post-production to be cleaned up or re-adjusted as part of QC. That extra step of checking and rejecting a few to be reworked is what ads to the price of the better guns.

    I have a savage 10 .308 and an axis .243. Both are fine guns. I also have a newer weatherby 30-06 and it has a totally different feel to it, smoother, tighter, more solid. In spite of them being functionally so similar I'd take the weatherby in the field over either savage in a heartbeat.
     

    DoggyDaddy

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    73   0   1
    Aug 18, 2011
    102,031
    77
    Southside Indy
    The Mauser action is probably the most copied action in the world. I love my Swedish M96 and I have an Argentine 1909 that was sporterized with a full mannlicher stock that has an action that is butter smooth as well. But there's nothing quite like a 100+ year old Enfield or Krag when it comes to smooth. And for the straight pull fans, it's almost a toss up between my Ross and Schmidt-Rubin rifles. The Ross is very smooth (as long as they're put together properly after cleaning!), but the Schmidt-Rubin is just an engineering work of art IMHO.
     

    DRob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    5,869
    83
    Southside of Indy
    There are lots of bolt actions made today that are smooth as silk. I can't afford any of them. Look at Stiller for one. Shot one of those. It felt like it was running on precision roller bearings.
     

    Sigblitz

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 25, 2018
    14,583
    113
    Indianapolis
    I saw a video somewhere. It was a gunsmith who takes the parts produced to a go, no go tolerance and rebuilds the action to a hand fitted tolerance.
     

    drm-hp

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 23, 2019
    298
    43
    Brownsburg
    Here is a modern action for you to try out; it is like nothing else you have ever felt.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]http://www.barnard.co.nz/actions.htm
    [/FONT]
    I am going to build a Model P in 6mm Dasher for mid range matches on one.
    My hunting rifles are on Model 70's or Mausers; what is the best tool for the job? If you are happy with what you are shooting the world is good. It does not matter the cost.
     

    TheJoker

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 9, 2010
    1,017
    113
    Shelby County
    The Lee Enfield with it's cock-on-close action is the smoothest bolt gun I've ever fired. I've got a Lend Lease No. 4 Mk I* made by savage that is 13 o smoooooooooooooth!
     

    two70

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Feb 5, 2016
    3,724
    113
    Johnson
    There is more than one way to define a quality gun and though smoothness certainly adds to pride in ownership of a nice rifle, it is only one of the factors that needs to be considered. Modern firearms are better in most ways than their older counterparts but as others mentioned the old guns do benefit from years and decades of use to smooth out the rough spots. Some modern designs are just not that conducive to being smooth, in particular those like the Savage that depend on the bolt head to guide the bolt instead of having full length guide rails or a full diameter bolt. Actions with three locking lugs tend to be a bit less smooth than those with two also.

    As mentioned you can buy smooth, modern rifles but you're going to have to take a step up from the American Rifles and the Savages to do it. Most of the rifles imported from Europe are pretty smooth because that is something Europeans typically value. Bergaras are reasonably smooth, Tikkas are much better, and Steyrs are slightly better yet IMO. Older CZs were decent out of the box but could be made outstanding with some time and effort. You can also find smooth rifles made in the US but you are going to have to either invest more money, more effort or both. X bolts are fairly good though limited by the 3 locking lugs, Ruger Hawkeyes and 77s are typically a bit rough but with some effort can be polished to be pretty smooth. Winchester Model 70's are typically very smooth out of the box and polish up even better. Kimbers are even smoother right out the box but the initial price is of course even higher.
     
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Oct 3, 2008
    4,184
    149
    On a hill in Perry C
    The Lee Enfield with it's cock-on-close action is the smoothest bolt gun I've ever fired. I've got a Lend Lease No. 4 Mk I* made by savage that is 13 o smoooooooooooooth!

    I think the cock on close actions in general just tend to be smoother. I know my Swedes have the best feel of anything I own, although I do have a very well used Finn M39 that will give them a run.
     
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