Private party sales - what's the common etiquette?

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  • rhrlaw

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    I know the rules around it are pretty minimal, but how are most private party sales conducted? In California, we had to go into a gun store and the FFL was essentially an intermediary who would ensure the purchaser could legally acquire the firearm. As a seller, that took away a lot of the risk in terms of meeting up with someone and knowing you weren't transferring to a felon, etc.

    • In Indiana, are gun stores a place where two private parties can meet to conduct a sale inside the store? Even though they're not involved in the transaction, it just seems like it would be a good environment to transfer a gun / cash.
    • What's generally considered reasonable due-diligence to ensure the buyer is someone who hasn't lost their right to purchase/own a firearm? As a potential seller, I'd like to minimize my liability.

    Advice would be appreciated!
     

    DadSmith

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    In Indiana if a felon lies about being a criminal and buys your firearm it's on the felon. This isn't the Communist Republic of Kalifornia.

    That said most private sales the seller usually ask if the person has an Indiana ID and a carry permit.

    I myself have not sold a firearm to anyone that doesn't have both.
     

    Phase2

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    Legal requirements:
    • You have no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person (criminal, under 18, etc). The odd-sounding wording is because we have no way to directly do an FBI background check as gun stores do.
    • The buyer is at least 18 years old.
    • The buyer is an Indiana resident.

    In order to do a good-faith attempt to meet those requirements (can't speak for outside of INGO), many will ask to see an Indiana drivers license (which proves age and residence) and an LTCH (Indiana License to Carry Handgun) which indicates that the state did a background check at some point in the past.

    Anything beyond that is between the buyer and seller. Some sellers will want to create paperwork to prove transfer of ownership. Few (but not unheard of) will go to the step of taking the transaction into a gun store for a formal NICS background check. You will pay for taking their time and resources. Understand that these additional requirements will significantly shrink the pool of buyers who believe in freedom who will be willing to deal with you.

    Although it is possible to do a transaction in a gun store, a much more common scenario is to meet in a public location, generally a well-lit area with cameras (like a store parking lot) to trade. The fact that there is a theoretical potential for things to go badly wrong is why people value being able to do transactions with those they have some level of knowledge and trust- which is why the INGO participation standard is valuable compared to truly anonymous sites like Armslist.
     

    Expat

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    Most gun stores aren't going to want you buying and selling guns inside their store...
    Some don't even like you doing it in their parking lot, if they know about it. I have met in the parking lots of large retailers most of the times.
     

    KittySlayer

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    Although it is possible to do a transaction in a gun store, a much more common scenario is to meet in a public location, generally a well-lit area with cameras (like a store parking lot) to trade.

    A fine balance as you want that public place with some people/cameras around but not so public that some soccer mom is going to call the police because she sees a gun being sold. Daytime is good too.

    The fact that there is a theoretical potential for things to go badly wrong...

    Don't be afraid to walk away if things seem hinky, trust your gut. Remember everyone at the transaction is probably carrying a loaded gun. Plus someone has a pile of cash and someone has a gun with some value.

    ...why people value being able to do transactions with those they have some level of knowledge and trust- which is why the INGO participation standard is valuable compared to truly anonymous sites like Armslist.

    Ask a few questions and you can get a feel from the private correspondence/conversation if this is someone you want to conduct business with. I have done some non-gun transactions online and every so often just get that weird feeling that meeting in person is not a good idea.
     

    rhrlaw

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    Makes sense, and I appreciate all the responses. I think the gun stores in CA see the transactions as beneficial because it brings in foot traffic and most people wind up buying ammo, holsters, accessories, etc. when they're there. Driver's license + carry permit seems reasonable.
     

    JettaKnight

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    In Indiana, are gun stores a place where two private parties can meet to conduct a sale inside the store? Even though they're not involved in the transaction, it just seems like it would be a good environment to transfer a gun / cash.
    That's like walking in Kroger with a cooler of meat to sell to someone else.

    Find a parking lot, meet, shake hands (or don't), inspect gun, hand over money.




    What's generally considered reasonable due-diligence to ensure the buyer is someone who hasn't lost their right to purchase/own a firearm? As a potential seller, I'd like to minimize my liability.
    You could ask to see a DL & LTCH, or you sell to an INGO member who's part of the community (i.e. more than 51 posts :):)


    You don't have an obligation by law to do any "reasonable due diligence". If you don't know that they're prohibited, then you're good to go.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    We do all of our personal transactions at gun shows or the parking lot of the local police department. I usually arrive early and let the front desk know whats up if they are open.
     

    MCgrease08

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    A lot of good responses here.

    Personally I won't do sale outside of INGO unless it's with a person I know in real life. Too many randos on sites like Armslist for my taste. At least here you can get some sense of who the member is before agreeing to the deal.

    I ask to see state issued ID. I don't really need to know anything beyond that.
     

    JettaKnight

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    We do all of our personal transactions at gun shows or the parking lot of the local police department. I usually arrive early and let the front desk know whats up if they are open.
    I guess it depends on the city.


    When the FWPD was at their old location, that's the absolute last place I'd want to be seen doing a transaction. That's some rough turf.

    Now it's downtown in the county building, so you'd effectively be standing almost in the courthouse square. Then you gotta mess with downtown parking...
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Most gun stores aren't going to want you buying and selling guns inside their store...
    Some don't even like you doing it in their parking lot, if they know about it. I have met in the parking lots of large retailers most of the times.

    THIS. Or even anywhere on their property. I was once swapping boxes of ammo with another member (he had 9 I wanted, I had 45 he wanted) and we were confronted by an employee coming in from his break. He reprimanded us at first, but once he learned it wasnt a gun and was just a swap of ammo he was cool.

    The only time you should be meeting a buyer/seller at a gun store is to take it inside so they can do a transfer because one of you felt it was necessary. (its not)

    I give you cash you give me firearm.

    This. In Indiana, you only have to NOT know they are improper. You dont have to positively know by running a background check. So I could sell to you not knowing you without a problem. But if my sister in law's friend wanted to buy my gun and I had heard from her in passing that he spent time in federal prison, that would be a no go because I know he is not a "proper person".

    Makes sense, and I appreciate all the responses. I think the gun stores in CA see the transactions as beneficial because it brings in foot traffic and most people wind up buying ammo, holsters, accessories, etc. when they're there. Driver's license + carry permit seems reasonable.

    No, they dont want the liability. They would definitely welcome you bringing it in to pay them to do a transfer, but if they arent getting a cut of the sale, they dont want any part of it. In my story above one of the concerns was some passers by might see the sale and report it as a straw purchase assuming that I had just purchased the gun from that store, and was reselling it in the parking lot for a profit to somebody who wouldnt pass the background check.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    I guess it depends on the city.


    When the FWPD was at their old location, that's the absolute last place I'd want to be seen doing a transaction. That's some rough turf.

    Now it's downtown in the county building, so you'd effectively be standing almost in the courthouse square. Then you gotta mess with downtown parking...

    I get it, I live in north madison co, so its going to be Anderson, Chesterfield, Frankton, Alex, Elwood, Summitville or Fairmount for the big part.
    I want the transaction to be on video.... And I know the local PD lot will be on video.
     

    spec4

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    Did my last deal in the St.John Police dept lobby. can't get much safer. Told them when I went in what I wanted to do and they said fine.
     

    EyeCarry

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    .....

    To the 50 Post Rules Suck crowd, this is why we want to get to know you.
    And this is what has made my purchases here less stressful. I feel like I already know the person either because I read their posts in threads I follow or they have bought and sold to members I recognize when looking at the history of transactions.
     

    Joniki

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    We do all of our personal transactions at gun shows or the parking lot of the local police department. I usually arrive early and let the front desk know whats up if they are open.

    ^^^ This is very good advice. The other place I typically do transactions is a bank parking lot.
     
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