Form 4473 and Uncle Sam

[Squander]

Hello, I was wondering how the police or ATF traces ownership of a firearm?

It is my understanding that any time a Form 4473 is filled out, that a copy is kept only with the local LGS/FFL and is not with Uncle Sam or any state authority.

So, it would seem that tracing a gun starts with the manufacturer and thru stores/FFL's where there was a 4473, until the first time that chain is broken (through a private in-state transfer, for example). And then even if a subsequent 4473 is filled out on a sale, after the private transfer, it would not be easy to find this 4473 without interviewing the private sale parties.

Except maybe where multiple firearms are bought within 5 consecutive days (Form 3310), which gets reported to the ATF, which would then establish an ownership record with the ATF.

Does this sound correct?

Asking for a friend...

 

[ECS686]

Basic answer (theres always a few ways a scenario can vary) They recover a firearm at a crime they trace it to day John Does guns as the original seller (usually through the manufacturs data base from them to distributor to gun shop) Then Tom Doe purchased it on such dat. Tom gets a visit asking if he sold it etc who to etc. Sort of like the Covid contract tracing in a way.

But heres the difference if Tom Lies to a Federal Investigator and they find out (can prove and usually a signed Afadavit because somebody isnt going to lie Federal Prison is full of people that got told on) Tom can be charged for lieing during a Federal inveatigator. AND if 2 or more folks have knowledge I have seen US Attorney's slap a conspiracy charge as well but usually they have to be royal A$$hats

 

[Squander]

Thanks, but I suppose Tom may not have a record of who he sold it to, maybe years ago, and then things go cold...Even if there is a subsequent 4473 transfer at a later date?

 

[flatlander]

My ex wife got a Glock 17 in our divorce which I had purchased. I got a letter from Federal's saying I needed to call them. Took a few days and called them. They began asking me about my history with the weapon. When I asked them why, they said it came into their possession by way of a criminal investigation and arrest in Ft. Wayne. Very pleasant conversation. At the end they asked if I wanted it back or destroyed and told them to destroy it.

Bob

 

[ECS686]

Thanks, but I suppose Tom may not have a record of who he sold it to, maybe years ago, and then things go cold...Even if there is a subsequent 4473 transfer at a later date?

That could legitimately be a case however they can akso trace from the crime end as well and hypothetically if Tom sold it to say Bill and and Bill does an afadavit (because again peiple don't want to get himmed up and that happens more times than not) Tom might or might not be hit. If course theres a lot of evidence they could or couldn't have and even so a lot depends on wht the US Attorneys want to spend in the war chest.

But for the original question thats the generic way they trace or try to trace it. And a couple cased/convictions I've seen in DOJ in my 22 years

 

[Bennettjh]

My ex wife got a Glock 17 in our divorce which I had purchased. I got a letter from Federal's saying I needed to call them. Took a few days and called them. They began asking me about my history with the weapon. When I asked them why, they said it came into their possession by way of a criminal investigation and arrest in Ft. Wayne. Very pleasant conversation. At the end they asked if I wanted it back or destroyed and told them to destroy it.

Bob

May I ask why you didn't want it? Bad memories?

 

[Slapstick]

There are several ways the ATF traces firearms. The most basic is they contact the manufacturer who will give them name of the distributor they sold the gun to , they then contact the distributor who gives them the name of the FFL they sold it to and finally they contact the FFL who gives them the name of the person they sold it too.

If an FFL goes out of business then they are required to send their form 4473s to the ATF who then enters the data into their eTrace system.

If you purchase more than 2 hand guns within a 5 day period the FFL is required to file form 3310, which contains the name of the buyer and firearm information, with the ATF and that information is entered into the eTrace system. Several southern States along the Mexican boarder have to file form 3310 if a person purchases more than 2 long guns or hand guns in a 5 day period.

The ATF is also known to take pictures of form 4473 during their routine audits and place that data into their eTrace system as well. The new revision of form 4473 makes that data capture much easier for the AFT. The old form they had to combine information from page 1, (personal info) and page 3, (firearm info) to enter it into the eCheck system. On the new form they just need a picture of page 1. If you look at a copy of the new form you'll notice that the first information entered is the firearm information followed by the personal information.

Is it legal for them to do it, maybe, maybe not but they've been doing it for years. They're argument is that it's the NICS check info on the background checks that is illegal for them or the FBI to retain not information off the 4473.

 

[MrSmitty]

I got delayed on a pawned shotgun, they didn't deny, just delay, the law says if they don't deny I can pick up after 3 days, I did so. A month later I got a call from a guy claiming to be an ATF agent, got his name, called the local ATF office,(I got the number from the phone book, not him) Confirmed he was what he said, called back and asked what he wanted, the whole conversation was about me getting delayed on a shotgun, I told him I had a UPIN, because a douchebag stole my ID, took my info, and paperwork on the UPIN, never heard back... I could understand if it had been a semi-auto, but a shotgun?.....oh well it worked out....So they do check out 4473's sometimes.....I have since bought a boat.........

 

[flatlander]

May I ask why you didn't want it? Bad memories?

Didn't want to pick up any cooties from it's travels.
Would have loved to have gotten something out of that divorce!!

Bob