16 Accidentally Wounded by French Military in Shooting Demo

[Cactus Jack]

French soldier held a rifle long enough to shoot someone???


PARIS — A military shooting demonstration in southeast France on Sunday left 16 people wounded, including children, when real bullets were used instead of blank ones, officials said.
Four of the wounded were in serious condition, including a 3-year-old child, Bernard Lemaire, chief of the regional administration in Aude, said on France-3 television. Fifteen of the injured were civilians.
A Defense Ministry official said the incident occurred during a demonstration of hostage-freeing techniques at the Laperrine military barracks. The official said investigators will look into why real bullets were used.
No information was immediately available about what kind of weapon was used.
The soldier who fired the shots has been detained, Lemaire said. He said the injuries were likely an accident but that it could have been a "criminal act."
In a statement, President Nicolas Sarkozy expressed his "horror" at Sunday's incident at the base, which houses the 3rd marine infantry parachute regiment.
The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, with the most seriously wounded taken to Toulouse.

 

[indyjoe]

This shows why the French military to be run more like Barney Fife.

"Can I take the bullets out of my pocket?"

"No, Private."

"Ow, man."

Hopefully everyone recovers fine. This underlines how important it is to segregate training with non-standard ammo (be it blanks, dry fire, etc.) as far a possible from live ammo.

 

[melensdad]

Seems to me that the French military should have paid attention to the gun safety rules:

Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety​

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.

All guns are always loaded - period!

This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"​

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)​

Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.
​

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.​

SUMMARY:

Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?​

 

[Lars]

But Melens..... Col. Cooper is an American.

The French would NEVER accept the rules or advice of an American.......

Of course you're 100% accurate. The four rules should have prevented this from happening.

 

[Bill of Rights]

French soldier held a rifle long enough to shoot someone???


...
The official said investigators will look into why real bullets were used....

It's clear to me that the reason real bullets were used is that the French soldiers never see them and couldn't tell the difference between live and blank ammunition. Typically, it's said of the Iraqi rifles: Nearly new AK! Never fired. Dropped once.

I guess it's true of the French, too.

Blessings,
B

 

[abnk]

In another board I frequent, a French NCO spoke highly of the unit in question and commented that the shooter was an SAS trained NCO. To me, this does not sound like an accident or failure to identify blank rounds.

Anyway, back to the clichés about the lack of French military competency...

 

[BloodEclipse]

French soldier held a rifle long enough to shoot someone???

That gun will be very valuable. A French gun that actually fired some rounds.

It's sad that this type of accident ever happens. With proper saftey checks before any drill, mutiple persons should be verifying that the proper type (blank) ammo is issued and loaded. This sounds more then just an accident however.

 

[rhino]

I received the story in e-mail from a buddy today. Here a slightly edited version of my response:

Wow! Some situations just have "dumba**" written all over them.

What kind of idiot points a real gun at people? What kind of idiot fires a real gun with blanks in the direction of people? Apparently Monsieur Frenchie Le Dumas never heard of John Erik Hexum or Brandon Lee.

Interesting how the other dumba**es are concerned about why he had live ammo on his person at all. He should not have had it, but it's appalling that no one seems the least bit concerned that he was supposed to be intentionally firing blanks toward people! ARGH!

 

[singlesix]

You'd be surprise (if this was an accident) at that chain of events and the multiple failures that led to this event. At Fort Hood, TX we had a young solider killed during a night fire. Another solider on the ready line shot because he thought he was on the firing line. How could this happen? Well the 40 page report was required reading for all Officers and NCOs.

 

[Dogman]

Sure glad I didn't post this thread.

 

[goColt]

But Melens..... Col. Cooper is an American.

The French would NEVER accept the rules or advice of an American.......

Of course you're 100% accurate. The four rules should have prevented this from happening.

Not all Frenchy's are anti-American. Check this site out: Les Fleurs de la Mémoire

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[BigRed]

French soldier held a rifle long enough to shoot someone???


PARIS — A military shooting demonstration in southeast France on Sunday left 16 people wounded, including children, when real bullets were used instead of blank ones, officials said.
Four of the wounded were in serious condition, including a 3-year-old child, Bernard Lemaire, chief of the regional administration in Aude, said on France-3 television. Fifteen of the injured were civilians.
A Defense Ministry official said the incident occurred during a demonstration of hostage-freeing techniques at the Laperrine military barracks. The official said investigators will look into why real bullets were used.
No information was immediately available about what kind of weapon was used.
The soldier who fired the shots has been detained, Lemaire said. He said the injuries were likely an accident but that it could have been a "criminal act."
In a statement, President Nicolas Sarkozy expressed his "horror" at Sunday's incident at the base, which houses the 3rd marine infantry parachute regiment.
The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, with the most seriously wounded taken to Toulouse.

That will leave a mark!

 

[KokomoDave]

Many of the French still to this day highly admire my great uncle, Don Pardee Moon.

Where is Sylvan with the sit-rep?

 

[Trapper Jim]

Suedo Blue Guns kill again.......

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You guys know this is a 12 year old thread, right?

 

[hpclayto]

You guys know this is a 12 year old thread, right?

Could be the necropost of the year!

 

[alanbarx]

French soldier held a rifle long enough to shoot someone???


PARIS — A military shooting demonstration in southeast France on Sunday left 16 people wounded, including children when real bullets were used instead of blank ones, officials said.
Four of the wounded were in serious condition, including a 3-year-old child, Bernard Lemaire, chief of the regional administration in Aude, said on France-3 television. Fifteen of the injured were civilians.
A Defense Ministry official said the incident occurred during a demonstration of hostage-freeing techniques at the Laperrine military barracks. The official said investigators will look into why real bullets were used.
No information was immediately available about what kind of weapon was used.
The soldier who fired the shots has been detained, Lemaire said. He said the injuries were likely an accident but that it could have been a "criminal act."
In a statement, President Nicolas Sarkozy expressed his "horror" at Sunday's incident at the base, which houses the 3rd marine infantry parachute regiment.
The injured were taken to nearby hospitals, with the most seriously wounded taken to Toulouse.

Headlines are crazy. "Accidentally"? They should have taken precautions ahead of the shooting demo. I hope the family of the 15 civilians press charges for this criminal act. Why on earth can't they have this demo practice in the wilderness where there is no one to get hurt.

If it where a civilian carrying firearm and make this mistake, heaven will let loose about gun ban and gun control.

 

[NHT3]

the dead CAN rise, this is proof.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

 

[GIJEW]

Regarding the 4 rules talk upthread, one of the reasons soldiers sometimes get killed or wounded in training, is because it's designed to simulate combat and those rules get bent hard. This was more of an issue before simunitions.

In any case, this was a DEMONSTRATION for civilians but it still doesn't make sense that they'd be firing blanks AT civilians. This sounds like more than an accident