Can cops speed without their lights/siren on?

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  • bglaze

    Marksman
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    Aug 5, 2009
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    Muncie, IN
    I got pulled over on Monday for speeding, and I video recorded it, because I did not think it was a valid stop. I was passing an unmarked police car to merge into a lane that was quickly being funneled from two to one lane on Kilgore road in Muncie. I had the choice to speed up to get in front of the unmarked squad car or slow down and cause a lot of cars to break quickly. I chose the former, since it felt much more safe. And even then, I don't believe I exceeded the speed limit.

    Anyway, the officer that came to my window saw me (I presume) remove my seat belt, and then asked me, kind of sarcastically, "You don't like wearing your seat belt, huh?" This officer's name was Lenny Popp. I had removed it to get into my glove box to retrieve my registration which he had asked me for. FYI, I was not cited for a seat belt violation.

    Anyway, the officer that came back to my car after writing the ticket was a different officer--Officer Conatser. He was very nice. In fact, after watching the video back, I kind of feel like I was a bit too rude to him. Essentially, he said he was ticketing me for going 55 in a 30.

    Since I didn't feel like I was traveling nearly that fast, I asked if they had a "gun reading" (which probably isn't the correct terminology) to prove that I was speeding. He said no, but that they were going 50, and I passed them. I immediately asked him why he was going 20 mile an hour over the speed limit. He responded, "Because we're police officers."

    After informing him that he was being recorded, he then said that they were responding to a call. Nevertheless, their lights were NOT on until long after I had passed them, and they were lighting ME up to pull me over.

    When I got home, I found out that Indiana State law states that Police Officers, unless they have their lights and sirens on, must abide by all traffic laws. As of posting this, I cannot seem to find the link to this code again (maybe someone else knows where that is?). But I did talk to Muncie Police Captain, Joe Todd, who confirmed this.

    The police who stopped me were not Muncie Police, however. They were county police. I have filed a request to their Captain Rick Richmond, and he said he would get back with me in one or two days, but he has not responded yet. My request to him was that this ticket be lifted, since, even if I was caught speeding, the police were acquiring that information illegally, since they admit to have been speeding themselves clearly on this video.

    However, I am no lawyer, and I may end up just having to go to the court hearing in January. But I hope to get it resolved sooner, so I don't have to take off work that day.

    Anyway, this is not meant to start a cop bashing thread. I do not have any ill feelings towards these officers. However, I do think I was wrongfully charged.

    I would like others' opinions, though. Even from other cops. Watch this video and tell me what you think. Am I insane and totally off base? Or do I have a point?

    FYI, if this is inappropriate for this forum, please feel free to remove it. I didn't know where else to post.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6POd1PR6kA[/ame]
     
    Last edited:

    Brandon

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    i am not a lawyer, but i think you killed your case when you said "why were you going 20 over when i passed you".

    that right there says you were speeding. i guess at that point since you have admitted to speeding, doesn't much matter what the cops say?
    good luck either way.
     

    bglaze

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    i am not a lawyer, but i think you killed your case when you said "why were you going 20 over when i passed you".

    that right there says you were speeding. i guess at that point since you have admitted to speeding, doesn't much matter what the cops say?
    good luck either way.

    I see your point. But the thing is, I really don't think I was going that fast at all. I was merely asking him, why was he going 20 mph over the speed limit?

    The thing is, an officer cannot just go breaking into all the cars that are parked on the street until he finds one with drugs. If he DOES find drugs, that evidence has to be thrown out, because he was illegally entering that vehicle (or so I have always believed). So, if the only way the officer knows that I am breaking the law (allegedly) is that HE is breaking the law. I don't see how that can be valid in court.

    Again, I am no lawyer, and I may have no case here.
     

    bglaze

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    i am not a lawyer, but i think you killed your case when you said "why were you going 20 over when i passed you".

    Also, that is not an accurate quote of what I said. When he said he was doing 50. I merely said, "Why were you going 20 mile an hour over the speed limit."

    I don't believe I ever admitted guilt in this video, because I honestly did not believe I was guilty then or now.
     

    bglaze

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    I think you have a very valid case/point, however i think it will end up expensive to fight it.

    Well, I don't plan on fighting it with any other power other than showing up to my court date with this video and the laws in my hands. If the judge says I'm S.O.L, then I will just pay the ticket, even though I don't accept guilt.
     

    bglaze

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    after watching the video i thought it was pretty funny the way you called him back to the car to "thank him" for the ticket

    Hah, at the end of the video is when I am embarrassed about what I said. I was nervous, and I really was just dragging it out longer than I should have.
     

    Brandon

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    Also, that is not an accurate quote of what I said. When he said he was doing 50. I merely said, "Why were you going 20 mile an hour over the speed limit."

    I was passing an unmarked police car to merge into a lane that was quickly being funneled from two to one lane on Kilgore road in Muncie. I had the choice to speed up to get in front of the unmarked squad car or slow down and cause a lot of cars to break quickly. I chose the former, since it felt much more safe.

    this could be a hard one to fight.
     

    NapalmFTW

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    They can respond to calls without lights and sirens. Davegrave put this point to me the other day and I'd forgotten, but it makes sense. You don't want to roll up on a 10-90 (alarm...) necessarily announcing your presence. Or a suicidal suspect... or a man with a gun.. etc. etc. Lots of times you'd want to keep the approach on the DL.
     
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    bglaze

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    If they were on a call why did they take the time to pull you over?

    I've wondered the same thing too since the stop. I guess the only valid excuse for that on their part would be if I was driving SO recklessly, that stopping me was more important than their call.

    There is no way this is the case, though. I often get accused of driving like a grandma. I am also a seat belt fanatic (even though I don't think we should be forced to wear them by law). I just feel naked without mine. And I often drive 5-10 mph under the speed limit.
     

    bglaze

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    They can respond to calls without lights and sirens.

    Oh yes, I don't doubt this at all. However, according to the written law, they cannot disobey traffic laws unless their sirens and lights are on. So, they can respond, but speeding, running red lights, running stop signs, etc... are still against the law.

    Or at least this is how I interpreted the code I was given on Monday. Which I can't seem to find again, for some reason.
     

    Hammer

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    If the judge says I'm S.O.L,(he will) then I will just pay the ticket,( plus court costs) even though I don't accept guilt.
    Does not matter if you accept it or not. If you were speeding and he was speeding you are both guilty. It just happens that he had the ticket book at the time.

    While I applaud your efforts, I would advise you to pick your battles wisely, as this one is not one I see you winning.
     

    Bunnykid68

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    Fight it initially. Obviously it is their word against yours and theirs has more weight than yours does. If anything it sounds like you were doing what everyone else was doing otherwise you would have blown past everyone.
     

    bglaze

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    If I passed a police officer who was already going 20mph over the speed limit I'd expect to get a ticket.

    The thing is, the Police officer was the one saying he was speeding. Not me.

    And at the same time, I understand your point. But why would those police be able to site you when the only proof they had that you were speeding was that they were breaking the law first.

    Just as if they broke into your car without reasonable suspicion or without a warrant and found dope. I believe that evidence would be thrown out of court, since they entered your car illegally. Yes you were guilty (I'm not claiming I was), but they broke the law in the process of acquiring your guilt.
     

    drillsgt

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    There should be some way to confirm if they were on a call or he just made that up when you told him he was being recorded, call their credibility into question if thats the case.
     

    Fargo

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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Couple of things:

    1. This is not your normal 4th amendment type illegal behavior which normally leads to suppression of the stop. The act of speeding by the police is not a "search or seizure" so I question whether the fact they were doing something technically illegal while gaining evidence to support stopping you will matter at all. As such, I question whether you have a legal defense.

    2. As soon as the ticket is filed with the court, which on an E-ticket is pretty dang quick, it is not up to the department whether the ticket stands. Only the prosecutor can move to dismiss it. If the prosecutor wants to proceed, the issuing department has no legal ability to prevent that.

    3. Whether they were actually on a call or not is easily ascertainable by their supervisors. If they are on a call, they are logged onto that call via computer or via dispatch. If they were not on a call, I personally consider a lack of truthiness a much bigger problem than speeding when it comes to police officers.

    4. I also really don't care if the cops, (or anyone else for that matter) speeds within reason. I do think it hypocritical if cops write people discretionary tickets for behavior they themselves commit. However, there is a lot less discretion in ticket writing these days what with OPO quotas and gov't budget crunches.

    Best,

    Joe
     
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