INGO LEO's Please weigh in on this.

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  • Jeremiah

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    Lee County Deputies Tied Suspect to a Chair, Gagged Him, and Pepper-Sprayed Him to Death - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

    I have no intent to bash the police in this thread. THis was just sick. The fact that, if this is a factual account, it was perpetrated by LEO's is unsettling to be sure.

    I want to know if you have heard of anything like this? Could anyone please justify a situation where this could have been a needed course of action.


    I want this thread to be a discussion of what happened, and any explanations for why charges haven't been filed.

    Please keep the one line comments to a minimum as I don't want to have to wade through tons of crap to get to a good post. Please, please stay on point.

    IB4 thread lock.
     

    Love the 1911

    Sharpshooter
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    The actual cause of death is not revealed. Sounds like it was likely suffocation but that is me just guessing.

    The title of the story makes it sound like the deputies brought him in, stripped him naked, tied him to a chair, and then decided to do a science experiment to see how many cans of pepper spray they could spray him with before he died.

    He had a spit mask on, and this would lead me to believe that he was spitting on every deputy that came near him. He was also likely attempting to hurt himself or doing things that could lead to him being injured, leading to him being tied to a chair. As for stripping him? Hell, I have no idea why that was necessary.

    With this last paragraph, it could also be very likely that he died as a result of a heart attack or stroke as it sounds like he was pretty worked up for 48 hours.

    My conclusion, if suffocation was the cause of death, charges should be filed. Heart attack or stroke, address any policy violations within the sheriff's department.

    This could have been done differently from reading the story. Why not take him to the hospital? Maybe he was too beligerent to take him anywhere which is likely why he was arrested in the first place. Should they take him to a public hospital and disturb every patient, family member, nurse, and doctor in the place? On the other hand, they likely have a nurse on staff at the jail and should have made arrangements to have him examined, although from the great details in the story, we can't determine if they did, in fact, do just that.
     

    Bunnykid68

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    The medical examiner ruled it a homicide.
    If you have someone tied to a chair naked with something covering their mouth I cannot see any reason at all why you would need to pepper spray them.
     

    Jeremiah

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    If you find more on this story please post. You are correct the details in that story seem to be aimed at an emotional response, without giving all the facts.
     

    colt45er

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    I normally don't post when I disagree with a post someone on here posts, mainly becuase its the internet...

    HOWEVER I do believe that you posted this to bash LEO's or get the ball rolling. If not you wouldn't have put the title like you did.

    Yes there are bad cops, just like their are bad lawyers, and doctors, and mail men, and whatever your profession is.

    I believe you posted this, knowing how INGO can go anti-cop sometimes, just to get reponses.

    Just my :twocents:
     

    level.eleven

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    Putting a bag on a man's head and dousing him with chemical weapons to the point that they are dripping from his naked body rises above murder. We are in the sadistic, mentally unstable realm at this point. Thankfully that one trainee broke ranks and spoke out.
     

    Jeremiah

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    I normally don't post when I disagree with a post someone on here posts, mainly becuase its the internet...

    HOWEVER I do believe that you posted this to bash LEO's or get the ball rolling. If not you wouldn't have put the title like you did.

    Yes there are bad cops, just like their are bad lawyers, and doctors, and mail men, and whatever your profession is.

    I believe you posted this, knowing how INGO can go anti-cop sometimes, just to get reponses.

    Just my :twocents:

    I have no issue speaking my mind about the police.

    I posted this in hopes that IN LEO's wouldn't so something like this, and in hopes they could explain why this happened.

    I am really hoping for more information as this story is just horrifying,
     

    SideArmed

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    Wow, makes me kinda sad to say that I grew up in Lee County for 18 years.

    The actual cause of death is not revealed. <snip>
    My conclusion, if suffocation was the cause of death, charges should be filed. Heart attack or stroke, address any policy violations within the sheriff's department.<snip>

    The actual cause of death is irrelevant, IMO, since the coroner ruled his death a homicide. Now I know when it comes to the court procedings it will be relevant, but insofar as weather charges should be filed or not, yes they should. There was a homicide and someone in that police station is culpable. he died because he got pepper sprayed numerous times, period. Whether that was from suffocation or heart failure, or what ever doesn't matter. Bet you dollars to doughnuts that if they had just tossed him in a cell, he would have woke up the next morning.
     

    esrice

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    You are correct the details in that story seem to be aimed at an emotional response, without giving all the facts.

    Agreed.

    By the headline I pictured this:

    gagged-tied-bound-chair-36492478743.jpeg


    But reading the article I find out he was in one of these:

    2008915017.jpg


    Wearing one of these:

    joshua-beadle-in-court-pic-rex-feuters-image-2-711653075.jpg


    Now I don't know what the SOP is for using pepper spray on a restrained subject, I'm not saying that he needed sprayed 10 times over 48 hours, and it doesn't say what actually killed him. But the headline isn't quite 100% on the details.

    I would certainly be interested to hear what the standard is for these types of situations and devices.
     

    UncleMike

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    I normally don't post when I disagree with a post someone on here posts, mainly becuase its the internet...

    HOWEVER I do believe that you posted this to bash LEO's or get the ball rolling. If not you wouldn't have put the title like you did.

    Yes there are bad cops, just like their are bad lawyers, and doctors, and mail men, and whatever your profession is.

    I believe you posted this, knowing how INGO can go anti-cop sometimes, just to get reponses.

    Just my :twocents:
    Naaaahhhhh.........
    You're just imagining things. :rolleyes:
     

    steveh_131

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    This OP was one of the least inflammatory posts I've seen regarding cops doing bad things.

    You're just itching to pull the "Cop-Bashing" card aren't you.
     
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    As a retired LEO I have some problems with this.

    A LEO may use that degree of force which is necessary to overcome resistance and effect a lawful arrest. Force used beyond that constitutes assault.

    I had a number of experiences in dealing with very dangerous mentally deranged individuals who had to be restrained and apprehended. The trouble for LEOs in dealing with such people is that most of our non-lethal techniques utilize pain compliance, and people having psychotic episodes simply do not have a pain threshold. In pre-taser days all you could do was get a lot of cops together, pile on the guy, get the cuffs on him and then strap him to a stretcher, all while trying to injure him as little as you can.

    However, once you have your man under control, use of force STOPS.

    Such an individual does not belong in a detention facility, which makes me wonder why this guy was in a jail for 48 hours? In my jurisdiction he would have been transported directly from the arrest location to an appropriate mental health facility.

    If he was being detained in such a way that it was necessary to pepper spray him at regular intervals, then he was clearly not under control and was being restrained improperly.

    My biggest question as a retired command officer is, where the hell were the supervisors when this was going on?

    If I'd ever walked into a police or detention facility and found a naked guy strapped to a chair with a bag over his head while cops were taking turns pepper spraying him I definitely would have had someone's ass.

    If everything as described is true, this situation was handled VERY badly and the agency is culpable in this man's death.
     

    UncleMike

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    This OP was one of the least inflammatory posts I've seen regarding cops doing bad things.

    You're just itching to pull the "Cop-Bashing" card aren't you.
    I didn't pull the "Cop bashing" card.
    colt45er did!!!
    I merely make a sarcastic comment based on his observation. :)
    Your personal dislike for me, and my chosen profession, is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
    Carry on...
     

    Love the 1911

    Sharpshooter
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    Wow, makes me kinda sad to say that I grew up in Lee County for 18 years.



    The actual cause of death is irrelevant, IMO, since the coroner ruled his death a homicide. Now I know when it comes to the court procedings it will be relevant, but insofar as weather charges should be filed or not, yes they should. There was a homicide and someone in that police station is culpable. he died because he got pepper sprayed numerous times, period. Whether that was from suffocation or heart failure, or what ever doesn't matter. Bet you dollars to doughnuts that if they had just tossed him in a cell, he would have woke up the next morning.


    Interesting take I suppose. I've been pepper sprayed numerous times and I'm still alive. If that was the cause of death, I'm sure the article would have pointed it out.

    What if they in fact, "tossed him in a cell?" And then he suffocated or turned his brain into mashed potatoes by running his head into a wall? Then someone is culpable for that, right? I've never worked in a jail and have no desire to. Their jobs are damn near impossible and then you get a bunch of people that second guess their actions based on fact-exempt articles that are only trying to get an emotional reaction from people.
     

    Denny347

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    I have no issue speaking my mind about the police.

    I posted this in hopes that IN LEO's wouldn't so something like this, and in hopes they could explain why this happened.

    I am really hoping for more information as this story is just horrifying,
    What's there to say? I have NO IDEA what goes on inside a jail.
     

    wtfd661

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    I have no issue speaking my mind about the police.

    I posted this in hopes that IN LEO's wouldn't so something like this, and in hopes they could explain why this happened.

    I am really hoping for more information as this story is just horrifying,


    How could Indiana LEO's posibly explain something that happened in another state :dunno: and certainly not by the article that you supplied.
     

    jve153

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    OP, way to bring this up objectively. I see what you are doing here, and it does not appear to me that you are LEO bashing one bit. i too, after reading that would love ANY insight from a source more knowledgeable than myself (90% of the people out there probably). we will all never know the particulars, but from the looks of things, something fishy is going on. either the detainee had it coming (doubtful) or those who had custody dropped the ball (my first guess). i would like to know which ball was dropped, and the particulars on how the ball fell.
     
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