What makes our rights ours?

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  • shawnba67

    Sharpshooter
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    What makes our rights rights?
    Who gave them to us??
    (this is just a thought I had, then I couldn't answer it well enough to suit myself. But I'm hard to convince)
     

    JTScribe

    Chicago Typewriter
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    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Okay, everybody knows it . . . but what does unalienable mean?

    Dictionary defintion - "incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another". Thesaurus - "belonging to a thing by its very nature"

    The thesaurus is more beneficial IMO. Our rights are natural rights. The Founders believed that we had many natural rights, note that there is no clause claiming these are the only rights, merely that our rights are 'among' these.

    These rights are superior to the government, reading on, governments are created by those possessing these rights for the security of the rights.

    Pretty heady stuff, really. If they taught the deep moral meaning of it in schools I think we'd have a lot less idiots around. Of course, say something like, "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and institute new government" nowadays and people will call you a terrorist. Heh.
     
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    Tombs

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    They aren't ours, they're everyone's.

    Our founders just wrote down a few of the most basic and important ones to have a functional and free society.
     

    rambone

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    The only thing that can keep rights secure is a vigilant public, willing to defend them.

    The obese, over-medicated, government-educated public is too saturated with Reality TV, sports, and cable "news" to effectively do anything about their rights.
     

    level.eleven

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    Rights are constructs of man which he uses to order the world in which he lives. Their only worth is what your fellow man is willing to allow.
     

    zippy23

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    God, if you dont believe in God, then it comes from who is in charge, this is why liberals love gov't, so they can control your rights and tell you what you can and cant do. without God, they set what is right and wrong and what you are allowed to do. this is why there is so much corruption, all for power over the people.
     

    shawnba67

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    This guy is on the right path, but holy crap is the OP serious? Where do we get our rights? Did you remember to breath this morning? :rolleyes: My head hurts worse and worse, from reading some of these new posts.
    Well thanks for taking the time to post about them:dunno: Your insight's are benificial, just not sure to whom. Hope your headache gets better.

    If our rights come from GOD then we are in trouble because GOV is trying to kill him. If they come from GOV we are in trouble because subjects fit better in the plan than citizens do.
     

    TD12

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    Afghanistan when I can.
    The flying spaghetti monster...where else.

    Well thanks for taking the time to post about them:dunno: Your insight's are benificial, just not sure to whom. Hope your headache gets better.

    If our rights come from GOD then we are in trouble because GOV is trying to kill him. If they come from GOV we are in trouble because subjects fit better in the plan than citizens do.


    First and foremost, god isn't real. The piece of paper, we all learned about in school, gives us our rights.
     

    Titanium_Frost

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    First and foremost, god isn't real. The piece of paper, we all learned about in school, gives us our rights.

    There are no athiests in hell...

    Anyway, even if you don't believe in God, gods or a creator of some sort you must understand that a piece of paper cannot GIVE you anything, it can only recognize what you are willing to pay for.
     
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    First and foremost, god isn't real. The piece of paper, we all learned about in school, gives us our rights.

    The Constitution (and the Bill of Rights amended to it) merely recognize the rights we are endowed with by our Creator. Government cannot grant rights, merely not infringe upon them. When things work out really well they even protect your rights, but that's not very common.
     

    jbombelli

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    The only thing that secures us our rights, freedoms, liberties ... is our willingness to kill and die to retain them.

    Let me hearken back to a phrase I penned when I was in high school, in the early 80's, for a speech I had to give:

    The price of freedom is blood. The moment we are no longer willing to pay that price, we are no longer free.
     

    sun

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    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    It's interesting that when this statement was written, slavery was the norm and non-landowners and women couldn't vote. So our "natural rights" have evolved.
    If God the Creator indeed endows people with their rights then God can also take away their rights, even the right to live. Isn't that what the proper use of guns for self-defense and the defense of rights against tyranny is all about?

    Who was it that led the Jews out of the bondage of Egypt, and parted the Red Sea that saved them in the Book of Exodus, Moses alone or with the help of God?
    And who freed the negros from slavery in America during the civil war?
    Who gave women the right to vote, and the right to vote to all citizens?
    In the end it's the profound belief in a concept of justice as defined by the majority of citizens.
    Most folks tend to believe that the definitions and interpretations of our freedoms and rights and stated in the Constitution and which may have also been gleaned from the Bible as well (for instance the 10 Commandments) are part of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but not necessarily of other non-Judeo/Christian cultures where women are not treated as equals, some forms of slavery may still exist, and universal suffrage is not practiced.
    That's why we as a nation encourage other cultures to adopt our values of freedom, liberty and self-representation through forms of democracy.
    That God and/or chosen wise men can create enough understanding among diverse peoples to have some common values by which everyone and every nation can live peaceably side by side with mutual respect.
    But when cultures, beliefs and values clash then that leads to war, destruction and death of people(s), governments and entire cultures.
    Obviously, nations don't go to war unless there are values and beliefs about rights that are incompatible and war is fought to identify whose side that God (divine right and justice) is on. Whether one believes in God isn't important, but rather whether one believes that right makes might or whether might makes right.
    I think that deep down we all know that right makes might and that whomever is in the right shall overcome in the end, even if that takes forever. Just look at how the rights of men and women are constantly evolving and expanding throughout history.
    No one alive witnessed who handed down the 10 Commandments and where they came from, if the Bible was written by men under the direction of God or not, whether the U.S. Constitution and founding fathers were under the direction of God when they wrote it, or whether the feudal king/monarchs were endowed with the divine right to rule by God or simply by the democratic means of men, or both.
    However, if we can all believe that right makes might and not the other way around, then there's a concept of absolute justice in the world and that grants those people who are in the right with the might. Maybe we should just call that the Almighty, along with the help of those who are destined to be on the right side of justice, and who are chosen to be the enforcers of all of the rights and the values which are considered to be inalienable.
     
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    TD12

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    Afghanistan when I can.
    There are no athiests in hell...

    Anyway, even if you don't believe in God, gods or a creator of some sort you must understand that a piece of paper cannot GIVE you anything, it can only recognize what you are willing to pay for.




    The Constitution (and the Bill of Rights amended to it) merely recognize the rights we are endowed with by our Creator. Government cannot grant rights, merely not infringe upon them. When things work out really well they even protect your rights, but that's not very common.

    The government gave us the right to do this when that document was written. How? Ok, let me break that down. The government controls what we can and cannot do by what is morally right and wrong. So, I understand that "believers" tend to think that some all-power 'thing' gave them the right to have a gun. Where in the bible did this god build guns? Where did your creator, say "Here, have a musket?"

    Man created guns, Man created laws, Man said 'You can't have machine guns*' *without a tax stamp*


    You're right, there are no ATHEISTs in Hell. In fact, no one is in hell. There are a lot of people buried in the ground, not a one in the clouds either.

    Can someone show me on the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, God's signature? Yeah, those were laws enacted and created by man. Not god.
     

    sun

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    So, I understand that "believers" tend to think that some all-power 'thing' gave them the right to have a gun. Where in the bible did this god build guns? Where did your creator, say "Here, have a musket?"


    Can someone show me on the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, God's signature? Yeah, those were laws enacted and created by man. Not god.

    In response to the OP, folks can believe whatever they want to believe.

    Revelation 2:27

    AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;

    Revelation 12:5
    She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

    Revelation 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

    http://bible.cc/revelation/2-27.htm


    George Washington's quotes reflect what he believed in


    George Washington,

    "The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations." George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson

    "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge

    "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency...We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven cannot be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which heaven itself has ordained." -- George Washington in his Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789

    "Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States.." "...Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency" From President George Washington's Inaugural Address, April 30th, 1789, addressed to both Houses of Congress.

    "Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion."--George Washington, ca. 1789, Maxims of Washington, ed. John F. Schroeder (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Association, 1942), p. 106.

    "And now, Almighty Father, if it is Thy holy will that we shall we shall obtain a place and name among the nations of the Earth...:grant that we may be enabled to show our gratitude for Thy goodness by endeavors to fear and obey Thee." George Washington

    "The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." General George Washington, July 9, 1776

    "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports . . . And let us indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion . . . Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." From President George Washington's Farewell Address

    "While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
    George Washington--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

    Quotes by Presidents Washington
     
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