Tennessee rolls out "No Refusal" blood draws

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  • 9mmfan

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    As much as people would like to slam the cops on this, I believe this one should be fought at the ballot box. Recall or vote out any state legislator who voted for it.
     

    Jerchap2

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    So, what happened to the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution? Checking my breath is one thing. Invading my body with a needle with no probable cause is quite another, IMHO. I might expect this in CA, MA, CT, MD, or other so-called "blue" states, but TN?
     

    Roadie

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    This just leaves me speechless, and any of you that know me, knows that is a rarity.. I can't even wrap my head around it..
     

    Bunnykid68

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    As much as people would like to slam the cops on this, I believe this one should be fought at the ballot box. Recall or vote out any state legislator who voted for it.

    They are the ones out there enforcing this absurd law down there so I can certainly complain about them, they should be protecting the innocent not violating them.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    So, what happened to the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution? Checking my breath is one thing. Invading my body with a needle with no probable cause is quite another, IMHO. I might expect this in CA, MA, CT, MD, or other so-called "blue" states, but TN?

    I think your misunderstanding what's happening. They aren't blood drawing everyone who comes into the checkpoint as the title suggests. They set up a checkpoint, if you show signs of intoxication you are further investigated, and if probable cause is developed and you refuse to consent to a blood draw they seek a warrant. Once the warrant is issued if you continue to fail to comply they force the blood draw.

    There is plenty to debate, don't get me wrong, but let's debate what's actually happening.

    Personally, I'm against DUI checkpoints. There are few checkpoints that I would consider reasonable, such as border crossings and perimeters for dangerous fugitives. I have never viewed DUI as such an immediate threat to public safety that it warrants the level of intrusion a checkpoint creates.
     

    Bunnykid68

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    I think your misunderstanding what's happening. They aren't blood drawing everyone who comes into the checkpoint as the title suggests. They set up a checkpoint, if you show signs of intoxication you are further investigated, and if probable cause is developed and you refuse to consent to a blood draw they seek a warrant. Once the warrant is issued if you continue to fail to comply they force the blood draw.

    There is plenty to debate, don't get me wrong, but let's debate what's actually happening.

    Personally, I'm against DUI checkpoints. There are few checkpoints that I would consider reasonable, such as border crossings and perimeters for dangerous fugitives. I have never viewed DUI as such an immediate threat to public safety that it warrants the level of intrusion a checkpoint creates.

    Article said the warrants were readily available
     

    Denny347

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    Hmmm, I've done more blood draw warrants than I care to remember. So, are we up in arms that the police are getting them or is it something else? See, this is how it works. I read you Indiana Implied Consent and the first 3 words are "I have Probable Cause". Wow, I have PC to believe they were operating while intoxicated. PC. Soooooo, you refuse, fine. I place you under arrest for the OWI and apply for a blood draw warrant based on the PC. It's a pretty simple warrant and PC of intoxication is not that difficult to show. When I was working DUI Taskforce we had to treat every refusal that way, warrant for them all.
     

    cobber

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    Somewhere over the rainbow
    It's a pretty simple warrant and PC of intoxication is not that difficult to show.

    How about PC for Operating with a Schedule I or II Controlled Substance in the Body? Mind you, un-Mirandized statements should be inadmissible.

    And re ETOH levels, it's not illegal until a driver hits .08. If a person is simply driving, stopped for no license plate light, and smells a little of an odor commonly associated with the impurities of an alcohol beverage, is that PC to get a warrant?

    :dunno::popcorn:
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mitchell
    As I remember from my time living down there, Tennessee seemed to deploy these check points quite frequently. It was quite typical to encounter one of these things around about any common recreational area. I've seen them shut down busy 4 lane divided highways to run the check points. The loss of liberty for the illusion of secure roadways has been advancing in Tennessee for as long as I can remember.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    So, what happened to the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution? Checking my breath is one thing. Invading my body with a needle with no probable cause is quite another, IMHO. I might expect this in CA, MA, CT, MD, or other so-called "blue" states, but TN?

    So, why do you think there will be no probable cause. Did you hear something on Alex Jones or something?

    It works like this:

    Cledus Lee Longstreet Lee Stonewall Lee IV rolls his pick em up truck up to the checkpoint. It is just he and John Barleycorn in the truck. Deputy Jasper Lee Longstreet Lee Bothshoes calls up the Right Honorable Judge Jethro Lee Longstreet Lee Lee III and get a warrant (maybe telephonic or sometimes judges are on site). The warrant allows Deputy Bothshoes to take Cledus Lee to the horsepistol and get him a blood draw which is then analyzed.
     

    Denny347

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    How about PC for Operating with a Schedule I or II Controlled Substance in the Body? Mind you, un-Mirandized statements should be inadmissible.

    And re ETOH levels, it's not illegal until a driver hits .08. If a person is simply driving, stopped for no license plate light, and smells a little of an odor commonly associated with the impurities of an alcohol beverage, is that PC to get a warrant?

    :dunno::popcorn:

    Exact same PC is used to read them Implied Consent. Many "downers" will show similar effects to ETOH...HGN will be present, unsteady balance, slow-slurred speech. Other drugs will likely require a DRE (Drug Recognition Expert) to form the PC for you. I've stopped plenty of people on Oxy and the layperson would think they were hammered. They will show nystagmus easily. Driving behavior, driving behavior, driving behavior...it's crucial. On a checkpoint, even with PC, we were told that if they are under .08 and you did not witness erratic driving...you drive them home.
     

    Denny347

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    How about PC for Operating with a Schedule I or II Controlled Substance in the Body? Mind you, un-Mirandized statements should be inadmissible.

    And re ETOH levels, it's not illegal until a driver hits .08. If a person is simply driving, stopped for no license plate light, and smells a little of an odor commonly associated with the impurities of an alcohol beverage, is that PC to get a warrant?

    :dunno::popcorn:
    Sure if I ask them questions. However, I generally keep my mouth shut. Drunks like to start their own unsolicited conversation where I don't even need to respond, that's fair game. They offer it up they are not shielded by Miranda.
     
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