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  1. #151
    Master Lex Concord's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggidy View Post
    Comparing apples and oranges.
    More like Red Delicious and McIntosh... but you don't like Red Delicious because they are grainy, so you're okay with preventing others from enjoying them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
    Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tench Coxe
    Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blakstone
    It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

  2. #152
    Mickey Mantle Trigger Time's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Concord View Post
    More like Red Delicious and McIntosh... but you don't like Red Delicious because they are grainy, so you're okay with preventing others from enjoying them.
    Are we talking about making an weed pipe out of a big apple or are we really talking about eating apples or apple metaphors? I really need to write this **** down so I dont forget it. This is mindblowing insight

    Im kidding. Not really high, just makig a joke about all of that for those qho dont know me
    NRA Patron Life Member
    ​NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

  3. #153
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggidy View Post
    Comparing apples and oranges.
    More like comparing tangerines to oranges. No, guns arenít weed. But abstractly the logic for banning one is very similar to the other.
    I have spoken.

  4. #154
    NOT "The Call Center" wtburnette's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagee View Post
    But they dont breathalize me unless they have suspicion. If I dont come to work high, they shouldn't care what I do on my time (lunch break aside).
    That's the way I feel. If I want to partake in order to find a bit of pain relief, or just to relax after work or on the weekend, it shouldn't matter to my employer, the government or anyone else. I wouldn't drive after doing so, no more than I would do so after having more than 2 beers. I understand that not everyone has my discipline for such things, but why should I be impacted for the stupidity of others? Instead of it being prohibited, it should just be regulated similarly to alcohol....

  5. #155
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoughMade View Post
    Well, one is protected by the Constitution, the other isn't, so one legally one can be banned, the other can't. There is a difference.

    The issue is the wisdom of the ban which is legal.

    Oh and the alcohol prohibition versus pot is inapposite as well, but closer.

    Make your case for pot. Period. The metaphors and comparisons are all assailable.

    Just make the case for legal pot and we'll go from there.

    Oh and "I think government should stay out of people's lives" me too....but that isn't going to win the day either. Make the case for legal pot.
    I hate that Iím getting into these discussions late. Undoubtedly the conversation has moved elsewhere or the points Iím going to make have been made. But I have to say some things.

    I agree that the guns vs pot isnít a great argument, but if youíre making essentially the same argument to ban MJ as the other side makes to ban guns, itís a fair comparison because itís the rationale being challenged, and they are similar. And that itís unconstitutional for the one isnít all that relevant when the government can and does ban some firearms for some of the same reasons that government bans weed.

    About the comparison with alcohol. Youíre constraining the conversation to arbitrary boundaries. The rationale for prohibition of alcohol was pretty much the same as it is for MJ. It is the rationale on trial here. If you can make the case that there is something much worse for society about MJ than alcohol, that society can legally have one but not the other, thatís YOUR case to make.

    Both are drugs that impair abilities and alter consciousness temporarily. Both have an individual and collective negative impact. Both, when prohibited, created new harmful effects through the prohibition itself: it created a black market and the accompanying organized crime, and the wars between competing gangs. I could go on, but you get the point.

    I think you have the harder challenge making the case there should be no comparison. The reason to make MJ legal is the same as it was to make alcohol legal. People do it anyway, so whatever harmful effects it has on people and society are happening anyway, but especially are made worse by the harmful effects of the prohibition itself.
    I have spoken.

  6. #156
    KLB
    KLB is offline
    Grandmaster KLB's Avatar

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    I want them legalized because I am so tired of the "war on drugs". So much money spent, so much intrusion into our lives, so much control exerted. It all needs to end.
    They shouldn't just drop a hellfire missile on your cafť experience...Rand Paul

  7. #157
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB View Post
    I want them legalized because I am so tired of the "war on drugs". So much money spent, so much intrusion into our lives, so much control exerted. It all needs to end.
    Thatís pretty much where Iím at. I donít use either drugs or alcohol, and personally I think the world would probably be better off without either. Society doesnít agree. Prohibition didnít contribute much to people not consuming alcohol during prohibition. It exploded the reach of organized crime. Same with drugs. Its not stopping people from smoking weed. All itís doing is creating a black market, the corresponding organized crime to supply it, and a reason to incarcerate people who wouldnít otherwise need incarcerating.
    I have spoken.

  8. #158
    KLB
    KLB is offline
    Grandmaster KLB's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Thatís pretty much where Iím at. I donít use either drugs or alcohol, and personally I think the world would probably be better off without either. Society doesnít agree. Prohibition didnít contribute much to people not consuming alcohol during prohibition. It exploded the reach of organized crime. Same with drugs. Its not stopping people from smoking weed. All itís doing is creating a black market, the corresponding organized crime to supply it, and a reason to incarcerate people who wouldnít otherwise need incarcerating.
    Plus causing more militarization of police, causing more intrusions into regular citizens lives as they hunt for drugs, and putting stupid controls around what people can do with their money.
    They shouldn't just drop a hellfire missile on your cafť experience...Rand Paul

  9. #159
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Thatís pretty much where Iím at. I donít use either drugs or alcohol, and personally I think the world would probably be better off without either. Society doesnít agree. Prohibition didnít contribute much to people not consuming alcohol during prohibition. It exploded the reach of organized crime. Same with drugs. Its not stopping people from smoking weed. All itís doing is creating a black market, the corresponding organized crime to supply it, and a reason to incarcerate people who wouldnít otherwise need incarcerating.
    If you are going with the delusion that simply legalizing weed will end the problem of criminality/black market, please cite your evidence that the 21st amendment alone ended the power of the mob (rather than that they simply used their power and reach to maintain the cash flows by other extra-legal means). The cartels are not werewolves and legalization is not a silver bullet

    Every libertarian seems to think that legalization solves all problems, when in reality it doesn't even solve their own


    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  10. #160
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    I hate that Iím getting into these discussions late. Undoubtedly the conversation has moved elsewhere or the points Iím going to make have been made. But I have to say some things.

    I agree that the guns vs pot isnít a great argument, but if youíre making essentially the same argument to ban MJ as the other side makes to ban guns, itís a fair comparison because itís the rationale being challenged, and they are similar. And that itís unconstitutional for the one isnít all that relevant when the government can and does ban some firearms for some of the same reasons that government bans weed.

    About the comparison with alcohol. Youíre constraining the conversation to arbitrary boundaries. The rationale for prohibition of alcohol was pretty much the same as it is for MJ. It is the rationale on trial here. If you can make the case that there is something much worse for society about MJ than alcohol, that society can legally have one but not the other, thatís YOUR case to make.

    Both are drugs that impair abilities and alter consciousness temporarily. Both have an individual and collective negative impact. Both, when prohibited, created new harmful effects through the prohibition itself: it created a black market and the accompanying organized crime, and the wars between competing gangs. I could go on, but you get the point.

    I think you have the harder challenge making the case there should be no comparison. The reason to make MJ legal is the same as it was to make alcohol legal. People do it anyway, so whatever harmful effects it has on people and society are happening anyway, but especially are made worse by the harmful effects of the prohibition itself.
    I think you have overstated the amount of thought going into some of these positions

    The feel I get is that many arguments devolve to the law is widely ignored and many people violate the law with apparently no lasting consequences, so basede on anecdotal evidence the law is bad/untenable

    You could say the same for speed limits. The question is whether that should encourage one to eliminate them altogether or just adjust them closer to reality. The choice seems to be between chaos and some semblance of order



    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

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