Legalization of Marijuana?

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  • Bapak2ja

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Dec 17, 2009
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    Fort Wayne
    Personally, I think it is time to end the drug wars and legalize the garbage folks want to use. Let them destroy their lives. It is freedom. Come or go, buy or sell, be drunk or sober. Be stupid or be wise. Their call.

    As we consider legalization of marijuana, and the "it's no worse than alcohol" argument, there are other factors to consider. Chuck Norris has some interesting and compelling thoughts on the issue.

    Chuck Norris smokes marijuana debate

    I hope it generates some reasonable interaction, not potheads bashing the establishment or rednecks spouting off about stupid druggies. waaa

    Please keep it respectable and address the pros and cons of the issue with all the wisdom of :ingo: CC vs. OC debates——well, maybe, on second thought, we can do better than that! dontfeed
     

    poptab

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    Aug 12, 2012
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    It doesn't matter what the pros and cons are. The federal government does not have any lawful right to outlaw the possession or consumption of drugs.
     

    evsnova74

    Marksman
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    Dec 16, 2011
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    Near-east Indy
    Whole beatus toast, organic peanut butter and a beetus-nana?! That's an awful way to start the day. Ironically, bull**** myths like that likely cause people to be deficient in certain vitamins and minerals because they're not eating nutrient dense foods, so they instead turn to drugs to make themselves feel "normal". At least he didn't ignorantly assert that marijuana has no medicinal qualities like those morons Guttfeld and Gavin McGuiness did on O'Reilly that one night. Because they know, they've done.. uh, NO research on the subject :rolleyes:. Anyone else notice that most of the self-proclaimed anti-marijuana "experts" that think they know everything about the subject are the least qualified to weigh in? I'm supposed to listen to someone who hates it, wants nothing to do with it, couldn't be more close minded and assume they're being even the least bit objective in their thinking? Because if anyone is likely going to have a trustworthy and meaningful opinion on the subject, it's obviously going to be one of those types, right? No different from bloomberg telling people you can't have salt and big gulps. Is there any wonder why the 'tarians say there's no qualitative difference between conservatives and liberals? One wants to use big govt to control some aspects of your life, the other wants to use big govt to control the other aspects of your life. "Limited government, unless it's for something I like." -limited govt conservatives
     

    Trooper

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    How many say that we should legalize marijuana in order to tax it? Yet what I hear most pot smokers really saying is that they want to legally grow to avoid taxes! In fact the reason that marijuana is illegal is a tax. The law is written in such a way that you have to have a tax stamp in order to possess pot. But you can not get the stamp unless you possess the pot already. Thus it is illegal as you can never get the stamp without committing a crime of not paying the tax.

    So how do we make marijuana legal? At the federal level allow growing by regulated farms. Then only allow regulated manufacturing of product with tax stamps on the final product. In other words, the tobacco model. Keep it less expensive than street prices but high enough to raise taxes. As we saw in Colorado, prices in the shops were high.

    With respect to dangerous drugs like heroin, crack, meth let us have state operated clinics where you can buy all that you need at far less than street price but high enough to cover costs. However you can only use it in the clinic under medical supervision. You will be treated like you are mentally ill. This is the Swiss model.

    What you are not going to get is free and open system.
     

    Sgtusmc

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    4   0   0
    Jan 10, 2013
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    indiana
    It seems like the states legalizing or decriminalizing are saying...Here's your pot, now hand over the gun rights. And when it comes time to fill out a 4473, how will you fill out question (e):

    e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

    While the state may have made it lawful to use, the feds have not. And what is considered to be addicted to MJ? Some say it's not addictive, others say it is. But the FEDS have the final word because you are filling out a federal document. Until the feds take cannabis off of the schedule 1 list, it wouldn't be a good idea to 'partake' in a legal state.

    One could come to the conclusion that state legalization is playing right into the hands of the feds...and they know it.
     

    jbombelli

    ITG Certified
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    May 17, 2008
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    Brownsburg, IN
    How many say that we should legalize marijuana in order to tax it? Yet what I hear most pot smokers really saying is that they want to legally grow to avoid taxes! In fact the reason that marijuana is illegal is a tax. The law is written in such a way that you have to have a tax stamp in order to possess pot. But you can not get the stamp unless you possess the pot already. Thus it is illegal as you can never get the stamp without committing a crime of not paying the tax.

    So how do we make marijuana legal? At the federal level allow growing by regulated farms. Then only allow regulated manufacturing of product with tax stamps on the final product. In other words, the tobacco model. Keep it less expensive than street prices but high enough to raise taxes. As we saw in Colorado, prices in the shops were high.

    With respect to dangerous drugs like heroin, crack, meth let us have state operated clinics where you can buy all that you need at far less than street price but high enough to cover costs. However you can only use it in the clinic under medical supervision. You will be treated like you are mentally ill. This is the Swiss model.

    What you are not going to get is free and open system.


    LOL.

    How many pot smokers do you hang out with? I can assure you the vast majority will not be growing their own. It's too time intensive and too much hassle to keep yourself in a steady supply when you can just run down to the local liquor and weed store and buy a bag, know it's going to be good quality, and based on what I saw in Colorado regarding pricing (including taxes) it's no more than what people are already paying for serious, high-end bud.

    I grew my own through much of the 90's. I quit smoking it (and growing it) in 2001 when my first son was born. Responsibility is a heavy responsibility.
     

    Classic

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    Aug 28, 2011
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    Madison County
    The war on drugs has been a roaring failure, easily topping prohibition for stupidity. Doesn't matter if you advocate the use of weed or not, what we have done has been a terrible waste of resources.

    As I always advocate, get the Fed out of our daily lives and let the states sort it out, but for crying-out-loud stop wasting so many resources!
     

    radonc73

    Marksman
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    Mar 24, 2010
    282
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    Lowell
    People could grow their own tobacco but they leave it up to the manufactures who can put out a decent consistent product on a mass produced scale. We used to riot over taxes now we want to legalize things just to tax them? My how times change.
     

    Jaredjosh

    Expert
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    Dec 23, 2009
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    Indy
    [FONT=&quot]"Legalize it and tax it". This has to be one of the most idiotic lame ass arguments the pot smokers have to make it legal. Get real, they don't want it taxed no more than they do anything else. You ever hear a cigarette smoker say how thrilled they were about the taxes on a pack of cigarettes? Will this be be any different for marijuana? Hell no. So when the pot smokers say legalize it and tax it I just have a hard time believing they want it taxed, they just want it legalized so they don't get thrown in jail for having it. Don't get me wrong, I also think it should be decriminalized, and of course like everything else, the government will tax it, but to say you want it taxed is BS.[/FONT]
     

    cubbetm

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    Mar 10, 2013
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    Legalize it. Don't care if you tax it or not but it has helped family members who have battled cancer. Why ban something that can help only to give them a medicine that has severe side effects?
     

    Shadow8088

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    Jul 24, 2012
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    [FONT=&amp]"Legalize it and tax it". This has to be one of the most idiotic lame ass arguments the pot smokers have to make it legal. Get real, they don't want it taxed no more than they do anything else. You ever hear a cigarette smoker say how thrilled they were about the taxes on a pack of cigarettes? Will this be be any different for marijuana? Hell no. So when the pot smokers say legalize it and tax it I just have a hard time believing they want it taxed, they just want it legalized so they don't get thrown in jail for having it. Don't get me wrong, I also think it should be decriminalized, and of course like everything else, the government will tax it, but to say you want it taxed is BS.[/FONT]

    Decriminalization/Legalization will lead to them legally growing their own... period.. I had a couple of friends back in the day with amateur grow setups that would blow your mind... they easily kept themselves and a large number of friends supplied... never got busted either...
     

    BogWalker

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    Jan 5, 2013
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    Only thing I have to say is usage rates would go up for all demographics. Take that as you will, but to deny it is naïve.
     

    LostLake

    Plinker
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    2   0   0
    Dec 7, 2013
    80
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    West Side
    [FONT=&amp]"Legalize it and tax it". This has to be one of the most idiotic lame ass arguments the pot smokers have to make it legal. Get real, they don't want it taxed no more than they do anything else. You ever hear a cigarette smoker say how thrilled they were about the taxes on a pack of cigarettes? Will this be be any different for marijuana? Hell no. So when the pot smokers say legalize it and tax it I just have a hard time believing they want it taxed, they just want it legalized so they don't get thrown in jail for having it. Don't get me wrong, I also think it should be decriminalized, and of course like everything else, the government will tax it, but to say you want it taxed is BS.[/FONT]

    I personally believe they would rather have it legal and taxed rather than have it illegal and face prosecution.
     

    Twangbanger

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    Oct 9, 2010
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    I don't really care what people put in their bodies as long as it doesn't affect me (but I do understand that is a pretty big "if"). I also don't like what the drug war has transformed our law enforcement into. So I guess it would put me more into the Libertarian camp.


    However, what gives me pause, and prevents me from going all the way over to the legalization camp, is the fact that we do in fact have a Welfare State in this country, and this nation absolutely does not, will not, allow people to fall on their face and suffer the consequences of their mistakes. I do believe legalization _will_ result in more people using it. When some of these folks inevitably fall on their face as the result of bad choices, our government will be right there to swoop them up in mama's arms, and coddle them with assistance, rehabilitation, etc., ad nauseam, ad infinitum. You, and I, WILL BE PAYING FOR THIS. The Welfare State never misses an opportunity to seize an opportunity, and "a friend in need, is a friend indeed." Another excuse to add more unproductive bodies onto the middle-class welfare state will be welcomed by the Statists with enthusiasm. A Christiania with 350 million citizens would suit them just fine.


    One more thing I'm not sure the legalization proponents have thought through: employers don't want their employees under the influence of anything, generally, and pre- and post- employment drug screening is court-tested and the law of the land. The bumper-crop of new users will be, by definition, largely unemployable. How are you going to handle that? Attempt to pass laws "outlawing" employment drug tests? Does that become the next "frontier" of your "fight?" How do you prevent this wave of unemployable people from winding up on the public tit? Are the people who "quit using" when their first child was born, _all_ going to stay on the wagon, when there are no longer any legal ramifications? What's that, you say - "I will still want to work to support my family, so I will toe the line?" Really? Do you think that's the choice everyone will make, when government benefits are so available? Do you really think all those people will not be happy with an Obama-phone subsistence quality of life?


    So, go ahead and legalize if you want to...but don't delude yourselves for one minute that it won't result in further increases in the size of the welfare state, because it will. And no, I don't believe there will be any compensatory offset in federal spending, because you can be sure every flat dime of enforcement money that is no longer needed, will be funneled forthwith into employing an army of people with social-work degrees into an ever-expanding "war on addiction" which will also have no end.
     
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    BogWalker

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    Decriminalize all drugs and remove the "Schedule" system entirely.
    And make the death penalty an option for all violent crimes. If you can use drugs and play nicely with everyone else, fine, but if you can't handle yourself there's no reason we should all have to put up with it. Penal colonies/exile would also be a fine alternative.
     
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