Credit Card "Bill Of Rights" - Free Market Interference!

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • rambone

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    18,745
    83
    'Merica
    Hear me out guys! Please read this, especially the part in bold. This is a sneaky bill that appears good but is really an attack on the way Free Markets should work. Government should not make rules for private banks!!! :xmad:

    The House voted Wednesday to join the Senate in approving sweeping restrictions on the credit card industry.

    The House approved the credit card overhaul measures by a vote of 361-64. Those measures would enact new restrictions on the industry, including a requirement that customers penalized by higher interest rates because they missed a payment are given a chance to reclaim their lower rate after six months.

    The new restrictions would protect debt-ridden consumers from many of the surprise charges common in the industry, like over-the-limit fees and a charge to pay the bill by phone.

    Some of the changes, including a requirement that cardholders receive 45-days' notice before their rates are raised, are already on track to take effect in July 2010 under new regulations by the Federal Reserve.

    But the legislation would put these changes into law and go further in restricting when and how banks charge people and who could get a card.

    For example, the bill would require people under 21 to prove first that they can repay the money or that a parent or guardian is willing to pay off their debt if they default.

    As banks scramble to make up for the lost revenue, cardholders who pay off their balance in full each month could also see annual fees become the norm and lucrative rewards programs canceled.

    On the plus side for consumers, card holders who see their interest rate skyrocket because they have been late on a payment would get a chance at their older, lower rate if they pay their bill on time each month for six months.

    I made a big long rant last week about how if you be responsible with credit cards, they can be really beneficial, because if you pay them off every month, you never pay interest, and certain cards give you rewards points. You can literally make money off of your cards because they send you checks in the mail as you build up rewards.

    Now what I see in this bill is punishment for the responsible people! And it's because Government is sticking its nose into affairs they should not be messing with!!

    I feel sorry for those in debt, but if you work hard and be responsible, your rates will go down as your credit score goes up. Like I said, if you stay within your means you will never pay them a dime, even get paid to use their cards.

    Companies in a "Free Market" society charge appropriate interest rates based on risk - not Government regulation. Now the chronic-delinquents and non-payers will be treated the same as the people who pay off every month. Because of this, the banks need to make up for lost money from the lousy customers somehow - so they will have to punish everyone - like you read above - annual fees, no more rewards programs.... I even heard that banks may charge interest on every single purchase, regardless if you pay it off on time.

    THIS IS THE SAME CRAP AS THE POLITICALLY-CORRECT MORTGAGES FORCED ON BANKS IN THE CLINTON ERA. IT IS INTERFERENCE IN THE FREE MARKET. BAD FOR CAPITALISM, BAD FOR AMERICA.


    Furthermore....

    This bill was, for some suspicious reason, attached to a provision allowing Concealed Carry in National Parks. I'm all for CC anywhere. But the Credit Card portion pisses me off! :xmad: Government should get out of the business of private banks!!

    They duped us into accepting this bill because it slightly advances the cause of gun-owners. Well the bills should have been separate, and the credit card portion should have been shot down... :noway:
    :xmad::noway::xmad::noway::xmad::noway::xmad:
     

    leftsock

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Apr 16, 2009
    984
    18
    Greenwood
    Some company, somewhere, is bound to offer a credit card that has no mandatory fees, and whoever that is will get my business, and those that require a fee will lose my business. Yes, I'm a credit card freeloader.

    Perhaps the free market will prevail and credit card companies will realize that they get more customers if they don't require a mandatory fee to use their card? Eventually people will get tired of paying a fee to use their own money. (I hope.)
     

    rambone

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    18,745
    83
    'Merica
    Exactly what Obama Wants

    It strikes me personally because I have taken advantage of the rewards on my purchases, I've received a few checks for $250.00 each since I started using this card. The Chase Freedom card gives between 1% - 3% on every single purchase. It really adds up.

    Some company, somewhere, is bound to offer a credit card that has no mandatory fees, and whoever that is will get my business, and those that require a fee will lose my business. Yes, I'm a credit card freeloader.

    Perhaps the free market will prevail and credit card companies will realize that they get more customers if they don't require a mandatory fee to use their card? Eventually people will get tired of paying a fee to use their own money. (I hope.)

    There is nothing wrong with that logic, it is the same as most customers. Once mandatory fees start, people will dump their banks in droves. The customer-base will be made up mostly of those in huge debt and those who don't pay their bills... The banks will suffer and cause even more of them to fail. That will give Comrade Obama a golden opportunity to nationalize even more banks and take over more of the private sector.

    This bill isn't about protecting consumers, its about hurting banks!! Its all in Obama's plan of Socialization....
     

    m2steven

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 1, 2009
    96
    6
    As a good guy with my credit cards ....

    I've been trying to figure out how to stick it to these people for making mistakes with my account and charging me for it with higher interest rates, penalties, mandatory periods of double payments with double interest, etc. I've decided that I, who never really keeps a balance on a card, will just use my debit card for everything.

    I'm sure there are good banks out there. But with the 'please the stock market or NO BONUS FOR MANAGEMENT' mentality in the upper rooms of these corporations now - there will be no decency among these criminals. If you are an honest person - find a different medium through which to spend your money.

    Now - there is instant check verification almost everywhere. If you're not going to keep a balance, then use cash. Why would a bank want to loan you money for 30 days and not charge you for it? That was certainly going to happen very soon, and not because of new law.

    Managers don't run companies for stockholders anymore. They don't care about profits. They run companies to get bonuses. That is their only strategy. That is why so many companies are in trouble for doing stupid things. Managers with short term goals designed to get another bonus next year. Not the long term goals of making money for stockholders. Did you ever notice that the only people who get money from profits is the management? Stockholders get more 'worthless' paper. They should demand the green stuff. But we're too stupid to demand actual money. We want more of what isn't worth anything.

    What a scam corporate america is running on us. They get the money and chicks for free, we get the 'birdcage liner'. Our so-called conservatives did this. The current management mentality is so entrenched that it will take decades before managers realize that corporations are not their personal systems for cash generation. Corporations are to make Green Money for their owners. That goal has been lost somewhere.

    Honest conservatives need to look around and see what's become of the business sector. We've got to save the system before we let it destroy itself and ourselves.
     

    rambone

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Mar 3, 2009
    18,745
    83
    'Merica
    If I may quote El Cazador from a different thread...

    While I'm glad carry will be available in the National Park system again, they beat us again pretty smoothly. We won a small victory, they made short term credit less available to many, more expensive to almost all, and those with good credit and credit history are now going to finance those who default on their obligations. More theft from the responsible by the irresponsible. Wonderful.

    In chess, they sacrificed a pawn to position their bishop for check. Somehow, we have to learn to play better chess.

    The fact that we can carry a gun in a National Park is a footnote compared to the damage done to the banking system. And no, it doesn't please me that I'll just have to carry cash around all the time to avoid credit cards. :n00b:
     

    SketchyAdvise

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 21, 2009
    12
    1
    Government should not make rules for private banks!!! :xmad:



    :xmad: Government should get out of the business of private banks!!


    you're right, they should let them set the interest rates how they want, over charge however much they want, take advantage of us, use OUR tax money to rebuild when THEY fail. Screw private banks and the Federal Reserve.:noway:
     

    Lucas156

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Mar 20, 2009
    3,135
    38
    Greenwood
    What a mess-I agree that the guberment shouldn't be interfering with this. On the other hand I don't use credit cards and have none because of the so called "mistake charges" that are added to your account at random intervals. You play with snakes you will get bitten.
     

    leftsock

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Apr 16, 2009
    984
    18
    Greenwood
    I propose a question, and please excuse my crude language:

    Should we protect stupid people from making stupid decisions with their finances?

    (By "stupid people," I'm referring to those who don't know, don't understand, or didn't take the time to consider the financial sinkhole they'd be in with credit card debt and related fees. And I've never met anyone who had been in such debt that didn't consider it to be a stupid decision.)
     

    Lucas156

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Mar 20, 2009
    3,135
    38
    Greenwood
    I propose a question, and please excuse my crude language:

    Should we protect stupid people from making stupid decisions with their finances?

    (By "stupid people," I'm referring to those who don't know, don't understand, or didn't take the time to consider the financial sinkhole they'd be in with credit card debt and related fees. And I've never met anyone who had been in such debt that didn't consider it to be a stupid decision.)


    exactly
     

    hornadylnl

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 19, 2008
    21,505
    63
    I'm going to keep an eye on my credit statements. I have charged several thousand over the last 10 years and haven't paid a penny in interest on any of it. I pay my bills on time. If they add any fees to my bill, it will be canceled immediately.

    I don't know why any of you are surprised by this. It's just another tool of welfare.
     

    jforrest

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 19, 2009
    469
    18
    Porter County
    The problem I have with this bill is it is making the government bigger. As far as credit cards are concerned, I don't care. I don't have one and I don't plan on getting one. A loan for a house is one thing, even a car I can understand, but not much else. IDK logic just tells me, if you don't have the money, don't buy it. That seems to be a hard thing for many of us Americans. Look at what that mentality has done to our economy. Blame it on the banks all you want, but the people still took the loans they dam well knew they couldn't afford.

    It all boils down to ONE thing...Greed. If people wernt out there to get every last cent they can, and would just do honest business everyone would be happier. I know that will never happen, but that is how I am going to live my life, and generally honesty pays off anyways. It just makes me so mad to see all this happen and now I am going to have to pay for it as well as my kids, kids, kids... you get the picture.

    Sorry done with my little rant...
     

    El Cazador

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 17, 2009
    1,100
    36
    NW Hendricks CO
    Managers don't run companies for stockholders anymore. They don't care about profits. They run companies to get bonuses. That is their only strategy. That is why so many companies are in trouble for doing stupid things. Managers with short term goals designed to get another bonus next year. Not the long term goals of making money for stockholders. Did you ever notice that the only people who get money from profits is the management? Stockholders get more 'worthless' paper. They should demand the green stuff. But we're too stupid to demand actual money. We want more of what isn't worth anything.

    What? What bank do you own stock in? How long do you figure a bank manager would keep their job if they didn't provide shareholders with positive dividends? Most managers don't see a bonus unless they produce profit. The few way up the ladder who do manage to get written into their contract a bonus no matter what profit or loss are very few. Everybody pays lawyers big money to make sure no one gets too big an edge on them. You need to quit swallowing everything the evening news tells you, and start looking for the other half of the story.

    you're right, they should let them set the interest rates how they want, over charge however much they want, take advantage of us, use OUR tax money to rebuild when THEY fail. Screw private banks and the Federal Reserve.

    The free market would set the interest rates rationally if the government would let it, and the free market would handle any "overcharging" (whatever that is). YOU control how and when they "take advantage of you", this goofy Administration (who I'll bet you voted for) offered the tax money to a few banks to cover their crooked tracks, and forced a few others to take the money. I hardly see that as the fault of all private banks. I'll agree the Fed Reserve needs to go. It was another Socialist construct by Dear Leader's hero, FDR.

    You need to lose the whiney "it's their fault I'm broke" attitude and grow a spine. Listen to Clark Howard or Dave Ramsey, and buy only what you can afford. Throw away the plastic crutch(es).
     

    CarmelHP

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 14, 2008
    7,633
    48
    Carmel
    This is a result of banks "too big to fail." Let the banks fail, and the remaining banks would soon tighten their credit standards to keep from failing. That's how it's supposed to work. Der Fuhrer's commands are simply setting the system up for much bigger failures down the road.
     

    jforrest

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 19, 2009
    469
    18
    Porter County
    You need to lose the whiney "it's their fault I'm broke" attitude and grow a spine. Listen to Clark Howard or Dave Ramsey, and buy only what you can afford. Throw away the plastic crutch(es).

    +1 no credit cards and no debit cards makes live simple. If you don't have the cash on hand then you can't buy it. Saves me a lot of money. And for me buying something with actual cash really makes me think, do I really need it? How many hours did I have to work to buy this, is it still worth it now?
     

    hornadylnl

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 19, 2008
    21,505
    63
    +1 no credit cards and no debit cards makes live simple. If you don't have the cash on hand then you can't buy it. Saves me a lot of money. And for me buying something with actual cash really makes me think, do I really need it? How many hours did I have to work to buy this, is it still worth it now?

    +1. Although I use my cards quite a bit, I don't use them if I don't know whether or not I will have the money. I learned early on not to pay for consumable items with a credit card. Let's say you went to Texas Roadhouse and put a $40 dinner on your credit card. When the bill comes, you've long since **** out that dinner. It's not really fun paying for something that you barely remember and no longer have.
     

    SavageEagle

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 27, 2008
    19,568
    38
    you're right, they should let them set the interest rates how they want, over charge however much they want, take advantage of us, use OUR tax money to rebuild when THEY fail. Screw private banks and the Federal Reserve.:noway:

    You don't HAVE to accept a credit card from these people. You don't HAVE to accept a loan from these people. THe Free Market will dictate the interest rates and fees. Once people stop going to these predators for loans and credit cards the rates will come down.

    Just like if I sell 9mm ammo at $40/hundred. Well, if o' boy over there is selling it at $20, I won't be selling any now would I?

    You don't NEED a credit card. Loans are a bit different, but you don't NEED one to survive. Save the money to buy some land and build your home as the money comes to do so. You don't HAVE to buy a $20-40K vehicle that will be worth half that next year.

    See how the free market works? Great isn't it? Better than the government saying "You WILL pay fees, at this rate, even if you don't have a balance, etc, etc, etc." Maybe I'm wrong here.....

    +1 no credit cards and no debit cards makes live simple. If you don't have the cash on hand then you can't buy it. Saves me a lot of money. And for me buying something with actual cash really makes me think, do I really need it? How many hours did I have to work to buy this, is it still worth it now?

    :+1: Absofu**ingloutely. What he said.

    +1. Although I use my cards quite a bit, I don't use them if I don't know whether or not I will have the money. I learned early on not to pay for consumable items with a credit card. Let's say you went to Texas Roadhouse and put a $40 dinner on your credit card. When the bill comes, you've long since **** out that dinner. It's not really fun paying for something that you barely remember and no longer have.

    I suppose if you need to boost your credit to get a loan for whatever reason this would be good. But not after this bill.

    Colorful way to put it, but yea, no since making payments on sewage.... :laugh:
     

    SavageEagle

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 27, 2008
    19,568
    38
    We have to remember that businesses exist for one reason: to make money for shareholders, be they private individuals or company stockholders.

    Yes but should it be a government mandate on HOW they make money? Especially if the government is the top share holder?
     

    kludge

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Mar 13, 2008
    5,360
    48
    Ever wonder where the "reward" money comes from? It's that 3% fee they tack on that the business pays to the CC companies for accepting you credit cards... The businesses respond by raising prices, which is why I ALWAYS ask for cash discount when I buy things from small businesses that cost over $100.

    A couple years ago, maybe a year and a half ago, they sent me a notice that the interest charges will be based on the average of TWO MONTHS average daily balance.

    I pay mine off every month.

    So, they shorten the "grace period." By the time I get the statement in the mail and send them a check, it's not within the grace period, and I get charged interest.

    They also shortened the billing cycle... this is done purposefully to increase the frequency of "late fees".

    So, as soon as we get the bill my wife started doing "check by phone" to avoid the interest fees.

    Now I got another letter a couple months ago that says they are raising my interest rate from 11.99% to 14.99% and don't bother calling because it can't be reduced.

    It also said that there will now be a $15 "service fee" if I use "check by phone."

    Screw 'em. I'll just use cash, and they can cram their 3% fee and get nothing from me.

    From now on when/if I buy anything online, I'm going to call and see if they'll do a check by phone, cuz even if I use my debit card online (which I refuse to do for security reasons) they still get the 3%.

    It goes futher than that... within the past year, making POS purchases on my debit card has gone from free to $0.25 per transaction (when you use you PIN number at a POS machine). This is done so that you will charge the purchase as "credit" on the POS machine. A debit card transaction costs the bank a fraction of a penny. A CC transaction gets the CC company gets its 3% and the bank gets the "reward money". So, screw 'em. I'll use cash or check, and the person behind me in line will just have to wait. I'm not going to be bullied by the CC companies and their stupid commercials on how I'm inconveniencing eveyone behind me.
     

    dross

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 27, 2009
    8,699
    48
    Monument, CO
    On one hand, the Obama administration says they want banks to lend more money. On the other hand, they keep backing legislation and policies that makes it riskier and more costly to lend money, which will only keep their stated goal from happening.

    Either they don't understand economics, or they're lying about their real objectives. Oh wait, they're socialists, so it's both.
     
    Top Bottom