Legal in Colorado to Refuse to Make Anti-Gay Cake

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  • Doug

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    T.Lex

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    Maybe I have this all wrong. Instead of being against adding more protected classes, maybe we need to make everyone a protected class. One big tie-ballgame.
     

    Doug

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    Are they required to make a "gay cake?" If so, what would that entail?

    As I understand the Colorado law, "sexual orientation/identity" is a protected class, similar to race, gender, religion, national origin, et al.
    Apparently you can refuse an "ideology," not a person. I'm not sure exactly what that means.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Let's apply BBI's test of logic, remembering people have rights but businesses are legal constructs.

    1) Was it custom work?

    Yes.

    2) Would you make that custom item for any other customer?

    No.

    Result: You don't have to make it.

    I really don't see why this remains complicated. When you open a business you are volunteering to interact with the public. Categorically denying service, hiring, or access to any class of people creates 2nd class citizens economically and is at its heart un-American. Might as well go back to segregated lunch counters and banding together to keep "them" out of your neighborhood by not selling "them" a house.

    You are NOT volunteering to do everything everyone could possibly ask of you. If you are a pizza restaurant, you don't have to make hot dogs just because I want one and don't want to walk across the street to the hot dog stand.
    Selling your wares without discrimination = fair.
    Refusing to sell things that are not your wares = fair.
    Being able to fully participate in the economy = fair.
    Being able to refuse to do a job you don't want to do = fair.
     

    HoughMade

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    So I can refuse service based upon a personal philosophy as long as that personal philosophy is not grounded in religion?

    Gotcha.
     

    Bfish

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    Wait so if she lived in Indiana she could refuse to do so with no worries?? But people are looking at it the other way aren't they??
     

    rhino

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    So I can refuse service based upon a personal philosophy as long as that personal philosophy is not grounded in religion?

    Gotcha.

    Well, hold on there. As long as the religion isn't Christianity, you have carte blanche to refuse service. It's only those pesky Christians who have to allow people to bully them.
     

    Twangbanger

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    So I can refuse service based upon a personal philosophy as long as that personal philosophy is not grounded in religion?

    Gotcha.

    You nailed it. If the issue of Conscientious Objectors had to be re-argued in today's environment, we'd prolly have Quakers in combat boots. And I wonder how many of these Libertarian anti-vaxxers are using religion as their dodge for getting out of that?
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    Let's apply BBI's test of logic, remembering people have rights but businesses are legal constructs. 1) Was it custom work? Yes. 2) Would you make that custom item for any other customer? No. Result: You don't have to make it. I really don't see why this remains complicated. When you open a business you are volunteering to interact with the public. Categorically denying service, hiring, or access to any class of people creates 2nd class citizens economically and is at its heart un-American. Might as well go back to segregated lunch counters and banding together to keep "them" out of your neighborhood by not selling "them" a house. You are NOT volunteering to do everything everyone could possibly ask of you. If you are a pizza restaurant, you don't have to make hot dogs just because I want one and don't want to walk across the street to the hot dog stand. Selling your wares without discrimination = fair. Refusing to sell things that are not your wares = fair. Being able to fully participate in the economy = fair. Being able to refuse to do a job you don't want to do = fair.
    Please point out the special exemption in the First Amendment which allows religious beliefs to be infringed. Oh, wait. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law . . . " It doesn't say anything about "non-elected judges shall make no law . . . " How could I have missed that?
     

    T.Lex

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    Please point out the special exemption in the First Amendment which allows religious beliefs to be infringed. Oh, wait. The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law . . . " It doesn't say anything about "non-elected judges shall make no law . . . " How could I have missed that?
    Well, it also doesn't say anything about private interactions.

    If a baker doesn't want to make a cake for someone for some reason, they should not have to. If the reason is generally offensive, market dynamics should put the baker out of business.
     

    steveh_131

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    Let's apply BBI's test of logic, remembering people have rights but businesses are legal constructs.

    A business is not a 'legal construct'. It may have legalities attached to it, but people have been conducting business with each other since the first item or service was bartered. Sure, the government stuck it's gigantic nose into it. But that doesn't mean it is a 'legal construct'.

    Your faulty logic would justify all sorts of ridiculous government intrusions into the marketplace.

    This is a simple question of liberty. Does a a free individual have the right to decide how they expend their time and property? Yes. End of story.
     

    HoughMade

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    Well, it also doesn't say anything about private interactions.

    If a baker doesn't want to make a cake for someone for some reason, they should not have to. If the reason is generally offensive, market dynamics should put the baker out of business.

    Free adults making decisions on their own, with their own money or for their own businesses? That will never work. How do I make people do what I want them to do? Be realistic.
     

    PistolBob

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    Let's say I own a drive in restaurant. Our mission is to serve good hot food to our customers at reasonable prices, and with fast friendly service.

    We don't care if our customers are homosexual, bisexual, trysexual, heterosexual, or asexual. We don't even ask. We sell you food and you give us money.

    If a same sex couple approaches me about having their wedding at my business, I will decline. Doesn't matter why. It's because I said so.
    If a man and woman approaches me about having their wedding at my business, I will most likely decline.

    I also reserve the right to change my mind for whatever reason.
     
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