US court says drug-sniffing dog fails the smell test

[SEIndSAM]

Interesting article out of the Chicago Court of Appeals.

US court says drug-sniffing dog fails the smell test

 

[eldirector]

Here, Kirk! Here, Kirk! Who's a good boy!

Drug dogs and weathermen must go to the same academy.

 

[steveh_131]

This is appawling.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It's about time we start putting the Four-Legged Writs of Assistance back in the kennel.

I've read this Constitutional Law Journal called INGO and INGO said that we could not treat dogs as snitches and make their prove their reliability. Also assigning mathematical models (e.g. batting averages) was an impossibility.

Officer Chompy creates false positives which act as the magic necessary to search cars where none is present? Huh, go figure, who ever complains about that?

 

[printcraft]

This is appawling.

Yes, there will probably be reduction in collaring of lawbreakers as a result.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yes, there will probably be reduction in collaring of lawbreakers as a result.

Sure it will...developing probable cause just became ruffer.

 

[pudly]

Officer Chompy creates false positives which act as the magic necessary to search cars where none is present? Huh, go figure, who ever complains about that?

Man. That's a *****.

 

[Cygnus]

Well there is always the possibility of a "Clever Hans" effect going on here. Some animals pick up on subtle muscle cues. If a certain human behavior indicates a Scooby Snack is available contingent a canine behavior, then false positives can happen. This does not need to be intentional by the officer/trainer. It can also result from poorly timed reinforcement during training.

Anway here's Hans. He got fed after getting the "right " answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

http://skepdic.com/cleverhans.html

 

[Denny347]

I have a friend who's K9 partner is a former Ranger dog, trained in explosives detection by the Army. When trained for civilian use, he was trained in drug detection along with typical patrol K9 tracking. Thing is, the dog never forgot his explosive training and some of his "hits" when looking for drugs were likely where guns/ammo had been, no drugs. They are dogs, not machines. Frankly, my friend detests drug searches anyway.

 

[steveh_131]

Who would have thought that praising dogs for finding drugs might cause them to find non-existent drugs. This could not have been predicted.

 

[Loco179]

Dogs are a great tool. But they should not be used for the only reason for search.

I would love to see asset seizures stop giving local departments any money. I wonder if they would be used so much?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Well there is always the possibility of a "Clever Hans" effect going on here. Some animals pick up on subtle muscle cues. If a certain human behavior indicates a Scooby Snack is available contingent a canine behavior, then false positives can happen. This does not need to be intentional by the officer/trainer. It can also result from poorly timed reinforcement during training.

Anway here's Hans. He got fed after getting the "right " answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

Clever Hans phenomenon - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

So if that's Hans then where is Franz?

And is he here to "pump.. you up"??

 

[ruger1800]

Who would have thought that praising dogs for finding drugs might cause them to find non-existent drugs. This could not have been predicted.

Drug dogs hunt for their own reward, they don't need praise, regardless many police abuse their doggy powers, a good dog won't make many false indications, but a lot of officers will say their dog indicated when they clearly did not, officers lie, dogs dont

 

[IndyDave1776]

Drug dogs hunt for their own reward, they don't need praise, regardless many police abuse their doggy powers, a good dog won't make many false indications, but a lot of officers will say their dog indicated when they clearly did not, officers lie, dogs dont

I would argue that this distinction, even if completely true, is completely irrelevant. The point at issue is that the dogs are used as an excuse for searches that are not based on any objective, verifiable cause to believe that wrong-doing is occurring. It doesn't really matter whether the dog's failure to live up to its advertised ability or the human deliberately lying is the vehicle for the abuse in question.

 

[Cygnus]

The could certainly be trained to provide the exact same response to a body cue as it does to the real deal. This could be done by an unethical trainer. Not they it is even a part of the problem; however the possibility is real. It could happen indavertantly by random reinforcement. Body langauge associated with a treat is done during a stop with no contraband.
I will concede a well trained dog could be right over 80% of the time.

 

[ruger1800]

So can we question officers who use their sense of smell for probable cause.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So can we question officers who use their sense of smell for probable cause.

Yes, but I want to know which officer testified under oath that he magically evolved the ability to smell pills as was told to me that a dog had experienced.

The dogs are stalking horses, we all know it. Let us insist on a greater standard for the dogs--video tape the searches and make them keep batting averages.

 

[Rookie]

Yes, but I want to know which officer testified under oath that he magically evolved the ability to smell pills as was told to me that a dog had experienced.

The dogs are stalking horses, we all know it. Let us insist on a greater standard for the dogs--video tape the searches and make them keep batting averages.

Why do you hate police officers?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why do you hate police officers?

I don't. Even the cop that told me that fishing story about magic evolution that his dog underwent, I don't hate. I just rolled my eyes at.

I just love that little thing called Due Process.

Are the dogs effective? We don't know. Let's start writing stuff down. You remember Reason and Science, right? Let's use those.

 

[MCgrease08]

Are the dogs effective? We don't know. Let's start writing stuff down. You remember Reason and Science, right? Let's use those.

[video=youtube_share;BSUMBBFjxrY]http://youtu.be/BSUMBBFjxrY[/video]