Democrats and gun control

[snowwalker]

After the first democratic debate last night one thing was made very clear, all five participants want to change the 2nd amendment and will push for more severe gun control laws. How can anybody who supports gun rights like those on this forum, vote for a democrat that wants to take our rights away? This participants are not stupid, but evil, in what they want to do to gun shops and gun owners all across this once great country. Anybody that votes for today's democrats is unpatriotic and anti-American in this country today.

Who side are you on?

 

[Captain Bligh]

So what you are saying is candidates' positions on gun laws are the single most important issue facing this country and all other factors should be ignored? Not being a one issue voter doesn't make one anti-American.

 

[Cygnus]

Webb and Bernie actually have positions far to the right of Hillary and the rest. Bernie staed he does not feel a gun shop is liable if they made a legal sale and someone did something crazy. He tried to explain that rural communities are pro 2nd regardless of party. He was challenged on it and replied ""you have never been in congress" Webb used the we all have bodyguards with guns, our constituants don't. Thye need to be able to protect themselves too.
I was surprised. Now neither of those two will be the nominee. Not that I could vote for anyone in the debate either.

 

[jbombelli]

If you proclaim to support gun rights, and then vote against them, as far as I'm concerned you're the enemy. Truly, the enemy, and I hate you. You're worse than someone who just comes right out and says they want to ban guns. They're honest at least, whereas you're a liar.

 

[snowwalker]

So what you are saying is candidates' positions on gun laws are the single most important issue facing this country and all other factors should be ignored? Not being a one issue voter doesn't make one anti-American.

Not one of our rights are even somewhat safe without the 2nd amendant. The following is a comlete transcript on the gun control question.
[h=1]TRANSCRIPT: Gun Control at the First Democratic Debate[/h] By Nick Leghorn on October 13, 2015

​

Tonight marks the first debate for the Democratic primary race for president of the United States. One of the very first topics discussed was the issue of gun control, and not surprisingly every single person on the stage believed that further restrictions on the rights of American citizens is the only acceptable solution. The following is the full transcript of that section of the debate, but first a couple notes . . .
Bernie Sanders presented a somewhat pragmatic approach, and argued that gun dealers shouldn’t be held liable for crimes committed with a legally purchased firearm. Hillary Clinton immediately pounced on that answer, demanding that gun dealers be held liable for the actions of their customers.
Martin O’Malley tried to use his passage of gun control laws in Maryland to prove his anti-gun bona fides, and pointed to the case of the blatantly frivolous lawsuit against Lucky Gunner as proof that the evil NRA has hijacked the legal system. And as always, something must be done.
Lincoln Chaffee basically blamed the NRA for all of the ills of the world and didn’t go much further, but it doesn’t really matter because it was Lincoln Chaffee. Finally, Jim Webb came across as the least insane human on the stage by going out on a limb and stating we need to keep guns out of the hands of bad people.
Minutes later, Moms Demand Action (a wholly owned subsidiary of Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety) issued a statement proclaiming victory because gun control was mentioned during the debate.
The following is a full transcript of that section of the debate, courtesy of WaPo:
======================
COOPER: […] Let’s move on to some of the most pressing issues facing our country right now, some of the biggest issues right now in the headlines today. We’re going to start with guns. The shooting in Oregon earlier this month, once again it brought the issue of guns into the national conversation. Over the last week, guns have been the most discussed political topic on Facebook by two to one.
Senator Sanders, you voted against the Brady bill that mandated background checks and a waiting period. You also supported allowing riders to bring guns in checked bags on Amtrak trains. For a decade, you said that holding gun manufacturers legally responsible for mass shootings is a bad idea. Now, you say you’re reconsidering that. Which is it: shield the gun companies from lawsuits or not?
SANDERS: Let’s begin, Anderson, by understanding that Bernie Sanders has a D-minus voting rating (ph) from the NRA. Let’s also understand that back in 1988 when I first ran for the United States Congress, way back then, I told the gun owners of the state of Vermont and I told the people of the state of Vermont, a state which has virtually no gun control, that I supported a ban on assault weapons. And over the years, I have strongly avoided instant background checks, doing away with this terrible gun show loophole. And I think we’ve got to move aggressively at the federal level in dealing with the straw man purchasers.
Also I believe, and I’ve fought for, to understand that there are thousands of people in this country today who are suicidal, who are homicidal, but can’t get the healthcare that they need, the mental healthcare, because they don’t have insurance or they’re too poor. I believe that everybody in this country who has a mental crisis has got to get mental health counseling immediately.
COOPER: Do you want to shield gun companies from lawsuits?
SANDERS: Of course not. This was a large and complicated bill. There were provisions in it that I think made sense. For example, do I think that a gun shop in the state of Vermont that sells legally a gun to somebody, and that somebody goes out and does something crazy, that that gun shop owner should be held responsible? I don’t.
On the other hand, where you have manufacturers and where you have gun shops knowingly giving guns to criminals or aiding and abetting that, of course we should take action.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, is Bernie Sanders tough enough on guns?
CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it’s time the entire country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country…
(APPLAUSE)
… supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.
Senator Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill. Since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. He also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. I voted against it. I was in the Senate at the same time. It wasn’t that complicated to me. It was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. And we need to stand up and say: Enough of that. We’re not going to let it continue.
(APPLAUSE)
COOPER: We’re going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.
SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.
I believe that there is a consensus in this country. A consensus has said we need to strengthen and expand instant background checks, do away with this gun show loophole, that we have to address the issue of mental health, that we have to deal with the strawman purchasing issue, and that when we develop that consensus, we can finally, finally do something to address this issue.
COOPER: Governor O’Malley, you passed gun legislation as governor of Maryland, but you had a Democratic-controlled legislature. President Obama couldn’t convince Congress to pass gun legislation after the massacres in Aurora, in Newtown, and Charleston. How can you?
O’MALLEY: And, Anderson, I also had to overcome a lot of opposition in the leadership of my own party to get this done. Look, it’s fine to talk about all of these things — and I’m glad we’re talking about these things — but I’ve actually done them.
We passed comprehensive gun safety legislation, not by looking at the pollings or looking at what the polls said. We actually did it. And, Anderson, here tonight in our audience are two people that make this issue very, very real. Sandy and Lonnie Phillips are here from Colorado. And their daughter, Jessie, was one of those who lost their lives in that awful mass shooting in Aurora.
Now, to try to transform their grief, they went to court, where sometimes progress does happen when you file in court, but in this case, you want to talk about a — a rigged game, Senator? The game was rigged. A man had sold 4,000 rounds of military ammunition to this — this person that killed their daughter, riddled her body with five bullets, and he didn’t even ask where it was going.
And not only did their case get thrown out of court, they were slapped with $200,000 in court fees because of the way that the NRA gets its way in our Congress and we take a backseat. It’s time to stand up and pass comprehensive gun safety legislation as a nation.
(APPLAUSE)
COOPER: Senator Sanders, I want you to be able to respond, 30 seconds.
SANDERS: I think the governor gave a very good example about the weaknesses in that law and I think we have to take another look at it. But here is the point, Governor. We can raise our voices, but I come from a rural state, and the views on gun control in rural states are different than in urban states, whether we like it or not.
Our job is to bring people together around strong, commonsense gun legislation. I think there is a vast majority in this country who want to do the right thing, and I intend to lead the country in bringing our people together.
O’MALLEY: Senator — Senator, excuse me.
(CROSSTALK)
O’MALLEY: Senator, it is not about rural — Senator, it was not about rural and urban.
SANDERS: It’s exactly about rural.
O’MALLEY: Have you ever been to the Eastern Shore? Have you ever been to Western Maryland? We were able to pass this and still respect the hunting traditions of people who live in our rural areas.
SANDERS: Governor…
O’MALLEY: And we did it by leading with principle, not by pandering to the NRA and backing down to the NRA.
SANDERS: Well, as somebody who has a D-minus voting record…
(CROSSTALK)
O’MALLEY: And I have an F from the NRA, Senator.
SANDERS: I don’t think I am pandering. But you have not been in the United States Congress.
O’MALLEY: Well, maybe that’s a healthy thing.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: And when you want to, check it out. And if you think — if you think that we can simply go forward and pass something tomorrow without bringing people together, you are sorely mistaken.
COOPER: Let me bring in somebody who has a different viewpoint. Senator Webb, your rating from the NRA, you once had an A rating from the NRA. You’ve said gun violence goes down when more people are allowed to carry guns. Would encouraging more people to be armed be part of your response to a mass shooting?
WEBB: Look, there are two fundamental issues that are involved in this discussion. We need to pay respect to both of them. The first is the issue of who should be kept from having guns and using firearms. And we have done not a good job on that.
A lot of them are criminals. And a lot of the people are getting killed are members of gangs inside our urban areas. And a lot of them are mentally incapacitated. And the shooting in Virginia Tech in ’07, this individual had received medical care for mental illness from three different professionals who were not allowed to share the information.
WEBB: So we do need background checks. We need to keep the people who should not have guns away from them. But we have to respect the tradition in this country of people who want to defend themselves and their family from violence.
COOPER: Senator…
WEBB: May I? People are going back and forth here for 10 minutes here. There are people at high levels in this government who have bodyguards 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The average American does not have that, and deserves the right to be able to protect their family.
COOPER: Senator — Governor Chafee, you have an F rating from the NRA, what do you think about what Senator Webb just said?
CHAFEE: Yes, I have a good record of voting for gun commonsense safety legislation, but the reality is, despite these tragedies that happen time and time again, when legislators step up to pass commonsense gun safety legislation, the gun lobby moves in and tells the people they’re coming to take away your guns.
And, they’re successful at it, in Colorado and others states, the legislators that vote for commonsense gun safety measures then get defeated. I even saw in Rhode Island. So, I would bring the gun lobby in and say we’ve got to change this. Where can we find common ground? Wayne Lapierre from the NRA, whoever it is, the leaders. Come one, we’ve go to change this. We’re not coming to take away your guns, we believe in the Second Amendment, but let’s find common ground here.
COOPER: I want to…
O’MALLEY: …Anderson, when the NRA wrote to everyone in our state — when the NRA wrote to members in our state and told people with hunting traditions lies about what our comprehensive gun safety legislation is, I wrote right back to them and laid out what it actually did. And that’s why, not only did we pass it, but the NRA didn’t…
SANDERS: …Excuse me…
O’MALLEY: …dare to petition a referendum…
SANDERS: …I want to make…
O’MALLEY: …Because we built a public consensus…

How can anyone in their right mind support a party that wants to take your rights away. If your in your right mind then ignorance is the only reason I can see. The Democrats, for the most part, have gone so far left how could anyone in good conscience vote for one that are on this forum? There are ONLY two sides to this, so which one are you?

 

[Sling10mm]

Folks are entitled to their beliefs and opinions, and some feel less strongly about their 2A rights than they do other rights. I know of some people who hunt with guns but couldn't care less if hand guns and "assault weapons" were banned.

I don't happen to agree with this line of thinking, and believe the RKBA is one of the first essential rights, but hey, that's just my opinion and is worth to those folks what theirs is to me, if that makes sense.

 

[Expat]

I am not a one issue voter but the RKBA is a litmus test you have to pass before I start considering the other issues. Bernie basically said at one point he had to vote the way he did to stay in office. He also kept wanting to brag about his D- NRA rating. From what Webb said, he was definitely the best of the bunch by far.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I am not a one issue voter but the RKBA is a litmus test you have to pass before I start considering the other issues. Bernie basically said at one point he had to vote the way he did to stay in office. He also kept wanting to brag about his D- NRA rating. From what Webb said, he was definitely the best of the bunch by far.

I remember a time when the vast majority of democrat candidates (and the vast numbers of democrats) were more like Webb and the kooks and fringe (both candidates and voters) were more like Hillary and Sanders.

 

[bwframe]

I am not a one issue voter but the RKBA is a litmus test you have to pass before I start considering the other issues...

Very well put sir!

If you proclaim to support gun rights, and then vote against them, as far as I'm concerned you're the enemy. Truly, the enemy, and I hate you. You're worse than someone who just comes right out and says they want to ban guns. They're honest at least, whereas you're a liar.

A might bolder than I would state it, but...

 

[Dosproduction]

If any one on this thread is saying they should not vote for someone because they are antigun then you better NOT have voted for MITT ROMNEY. If you voted for MITT then you are the reason we have issues with the 2nd amendment.

 

[bwframe]

If any one on this thread is saying they should not vote for someone because they are antigun then you better NOT have voted for MITT ROMNEY. If you voted for MITT then you are the reason we have issues with the 2nd amendment.

Bombelli hates you.

 

[Dosproduction]

Snowwalker who did you vote for when it was Mitt vs Obama. If you voted for either then you are what you hate.

 

[actaeon277]

Folks are entitled to their beliefs and opinions, and some feel less strongly about their 2A rights than they do other rights. I know of some people who hunt with guns but couldn't care less if hand guns and "assault weapons" were banned.

I don't happen to agree with this line of thinking, and believe the RKBA is one of the first essential rights, but hey, that's just my opinion and is worth to those folks what theirs is to me, if that makes sense.

Should tell your buddies..

 

[Twangbanger]

After the first democratic debate last night one thing was made very clear, all five participants want to change the 2nd amendment and will push for more severe gun control laws. How can anybody who supports gun rights like those on this forum, vote for a democrat that wants to take our rights away?...Who side are you on?

Owning a gun does not make you a friend to liberty, any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.

I've seen it time and again. Liberal gun owners bash Republicans - while relying on them to protect their gun rights. They support leftist politician after leftist politician...and when asked what happens when these folks get their way on gun control, they say: "It won't happen, we have courts to protect the 2nd Amendment," or "It won't happen, the NRA won't let it."

So: what these people are basically saying is - "Me & my gun freedoms sleep safely under a blanket of security provided by Republicans. And we enjoy that freedom and bite the hand that feeds us and criticize and vote against them every chance we get."

Another favorite line is, "what good does it do to have the freedom to own guns, if the Working Man can't afford to buy ammo because of Republican policies" (this one usually repeated by mind-numbed union members parroting what their local told them).

Here's another favorite line - see if you see this one on INGO in the next 13 months: "I don't vote straight for one party or the other...there are pro-gun Democrats out there."

How about this: "There are Republicans who have supported gun control" (soooo...you're perfectly justified in voting Democrat every single election. Yah. Got it, buddy).

 

[longbarrel]

Owning a gun does not make you a friend to liberty, any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.

I've seen it time and again. Liberal gun owners bash Republicans - while relying on them to protect their gun rights. They support leftist politician after leftist politician...and when asked what happens when these folks get their way on gun control, they say: "It won't happen, we have courts to protect the 2nd Amendment," or "It won't happen, the NRA won't let it."

So: what these people are basically saying is - "Me & my gun freedoms sleep safely under a blanket of security provided by Republicans. And we enjoy that freedom and bite the hand that feeds us and criticize and vote against them every chance we get."

Another favorite line is, "what good does it do to have the freedom to own guns, if the Working Man can't afford to buy ammo because of Republican policies" (this one usually repeated by mind-numbed union members parroting what their local told them).

Here's another favorite line - see if you see this one on INGO in the next 13 months: "I don't vote straight for one party or the other...there are pro-gun Democrats out there."

How about this: "There are Republicans who have supported gun control" (soooo...you're perfectly justified in voting Democrat every single election. Yah. Got it, buddy).

I am going to support your post except, I will probably vote for Bernie. That being said, am a lifetime member of CCRKBA, GOA, and a benefactor life member of the NRA. Vote your paycheck, lobby your special interest.

 

[TopDog]

So what you are saying is candidates' positions on gun laws are the single most important issue facing this country and all other factors should be ignored? Not being a one issue voter doesn't make one anti-American.

I did not read the entire thread. But to respond to this one point. Yes, if they do not support the most basic of rights they support none of them. If they are willing to trample any of your rights they are willing to step all over every one of your rights. Look at how the democrats / liberals do not hesitate to trample on the 1st amendment to trash the 2nd. No not all other issues should be ignored but pay attention to all the rights being disregarded. Those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it, that simple quote will forever be true.

 

[Bfish]

I feel the biggest reason is a Dem is because he is very socially liberal... He's the one I've wanted to do well on the Dem side from the beginning, he just is better than the other IMO and he's not anti gun. He's the only one on the Dem side that wouldn't have me worried they would be bad for our country!

 

[Drail]

Democrats only want to change our Republic into a Democracy (of the Socialist flavor). They are stupid. They are traitors. They do not deserve to live here. As far as the whole "one issue" voter thing - if you know their position on the 2nd Amendment then you have a pretty clear view of their commitment to upholding the entire Constitution. I am now 63 years old and in my lifetime I have not seen one single "elected" President or candidate that respects the Constitution except for Ron Paul. Our Republic came with an instruction manual written in extremely clear and concise English. Not Spanish or Arabic or French or German. English. If our leaders would just follow the instructions and quit screwing around with "democracy" we would be the greatest country in the world (though probably not the most popular). The Founding Fathers had a pretty dim view of "democracy" because they were students of History. Democracy has led to ruin every single time it was tried. It has never produced anything but chaos and total collapse.

 

[Alpo]

This is an amazing thread.

 

[Drail]

Sorta makes you think don't it?