Total abortion ban proposed in Indiana

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  • Rating - 0%
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    Dec 11, 2012
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    As an abolitionist myself, I don't see how this will ever be allowed to go into effect, even if it's passed and signed.

    Total abortion ban proposed in Indiana

    The bill is DOA. I don't care how the SCOTUS changes, I highly doubt they will overturn Roe V. Wade and that's the only way that bill would stand a chance. I'm not even going to touch the pro vs con on whether the bill should exist in the first place. I despise internet debates.
     

    HoughMade

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    In the form he proposed, doesn't have a chance. In a different form, outlawed, but not criminalized as to the women and with exceptions, and a SCOTUS reversal (aside: we are years out from this if ever) it could pass and be implemented.

    ...but he got his name in the paper.
     

    lstout

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    Nov 16, 2016
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    The bill is DOA. I don't care how the SCOTUS changes, I highly doubt they will overturn Roe V. Wade and that's the only way that bill would stand a chance. I'm not even going to touch the pro vs con on whether the bill should exist in the first place. I despise internet debates.


    I completely agree with you. Even with the vast number of republicans elected last week, the likely hood of this actually going through and being affirmed by the supreme court is extremely low. (Not weighing in on debate just my opinion on likelyhood)
     

    jamil

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    As an abolitionist myself, I don't see how this will ever be allowed to go into effect, even if it's passed and signed.

    Total abortion ban proposed in Indiana


    The bill is DOA. I don't care how the SCOTUS changes, I highly doubt they will overturn Roe V. Wade and that's the only way that bill would stand a chance. I'm not even going to touch the pro vs con on whether the bill should exist in the first place. I despise internet debates.

    In the form he proposed, doesn't have a chance. In a different form, outlawed, but not criminalized as to the women and with exceptions, and a SCOTUS reversal (aside: we are years out from this if ever) it could pass and be implemented.

    ...but he got his name in the paper.


    This is the typical Hoosier Republican virtue signaling legislation. Pass a bill, maybe sign it, when it hasn't a chance in SCOTUS. Meanwhile, the world melts down needlessly.
     

    indiucky

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    In the form he proposed, doesn't have a chance. In a different form, outlawed, but not criminalized as to the women and with exceptions, and a SCOTUS reversal (aside: we are years out from this if ever) it could pass and be implemented.

    ...but he got his name in the paper.

    I ratted out an abortionist in Indiana before Roe v Wade.....I didn't mean too....A nurse who lived down the street in our neighborhood had her garbage can spill out into the street where we played hoops....I was young, about 8 or so, and noticed syringes, lots of bloody bandages, etc...just laying out in the street...We used our feet to shove it all back towards the curb and put the garbage can back upright...A young officer (who later became chief) was passing by and stopped to chat with us....We pointed out the stuff on the street and said, "She works at a hospital and some of her work stuff fell out in the street..." The officer nodded his head and said we did the right thing showing him....The woman never spoke to anyone in the neighborhood (which was unusual at that time on my street) and seemed to have many visitors late at night.....

    A couple of days later the police got a warrant, arrested her and we saw it on the news....Mom and Dad had to explain as best they could and just said she hurt women and babies and left it at that....IIRC correctly Roe V Wade was decided before she went to trial.....
     
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    d.kaufman

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    Mar 9, 2013
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    Im not for abortion but a total ban is just not the right way to go. I believe exemptions for rape/incest are ok. Late term abortions are a no no to me just because a baby can be born a have a completely normal life if born in the late stages of the 2nd trimester. To many women use abortion as a form of birth control, and i believe that should not be allowed. I also believe we should defund planned parenthood because they make it real easy for women to use abortion as a form of birth control. I definitely feel i shouldn't have to pay for that as a overburdened taxpayer
     

    bwframe

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    It needs to happen at SCOTUS, return the determination to the states. Hopefully the states will develop programs that inform mothers of where life begins, yet not completely make the decision to abort 100% murder.
     

    ATM

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    Couldn't we just keep the laws prohibiting murder and repeal whatever the laws are that grant exceptions to murdering the unborn?

    I like repealing laws.

    Most of them.
     

    indykid

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    I would like to know if he would have a woman who was raped and became pregnant due to that rape arrested if she aborted that baby.
     

    ATM

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    I would like to know if he would have a woman who was raped and became pregnant due to that rape arrested if she aborted that baby.

    You don't think that might depend on the circumstances?

    Did she take a morning after pill, wait until her 2nd or 3rd trimester, opt for partial birth at the last minute?

    Abortion, even as a subset of murder, is still a pretty big category with many subtle nuances to consider.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Rape is a whole different situation. Pregnancy via rape is what % of overall children being created?

    If you're anti-abortion, no it's not. If you're calling it murder, then under what circumstance is murder ok? Because someone else was harmed? I might add, the person being murdered, is innocent of the crime committed against that someone.
     

    HubertGummer

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    Im not for abortion but a total ban is just not the right way to go. I believe exemptions for rape/incest are ok. Late term abortions are a no no to me just because a baby can be born a have a completely normal life if born in the late stages of the 2nd trimester. To many women use abortion as a form of birth control, and i believe that should not be allowed. I also believe we should defund planned parenthood because they make it real easy for women to use abortion as a form of birth control. I definitely feel i shouldn't have to pay for that as a overburdened taxpayer
    :yesway: 100%
     

    jamil

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    Couldn't we just keep the laws prohibiting murder and repeal whatever the laws are that grant exceptions to murdering the unborn?

    I like repealing laws.

    Most of them.

    That would work if everyone agreed it's murder. That's the problem. For the most part, the people who believe abortion is murder from the point of conception, are religious people. That belief is driven by their belief in God. For nonreligious people, it's an unanswered question when a fetus becomes a person with the inherent rights of a person. So by insisting that life begins at conception, religious people are forcing a religious concept on people who are not religious.
     

    ATM

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    That would work if everyone agreed it's murder. That's the problem. For the most part, the people who believe abortion is murder from the point of conception, are religious people. That belief is driven by their belief in God. For nonreligious people, it's an unanswered question when a fetus becomes a person with the inherent rights of a person. So by insisting that life begins at conception, religious people are forcing a religious concept on people who are not religious.

    I disagree (shocking, I know).

    The myriad of laws we're subject too in differing jurisdictions already confuse and cherry-pick that point. If one can be charged with attempted murder of the unborn in some instances but not others, this is just a legal question of who gets an exception to do it and when.

    I make no apologies that many of us have answers that others still consider unanswered. Perhaps we should all think more. :yesway:
     

    churchmouse

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    Couldn't we just keep the laws prohibiting murder and repeal whatever the laws are that grant exceptions to murdering the unborn?

    I like repealing laws.

    Most of them.

    The reality in this is we could drop possibly 75% of the existing laws, send most of the law makers home to meet maybe a few weeks throughout the year to discuss infrastructure etc and be done with the madness they generate.
     

    Bill of Rights

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    Where's the bacon?
    From what I've seen, the use of a murder charge with the victim being a fetus is used when there is, for whatever reason, not enough evidence to prove the guilt of the person who in some way harmed the mother-to-be.

    While that SHOULD mean that the accused was then freed, there are times we all know that someone is guilty, but they are not found so in court. OJ Simpson was one example. Not guilty is not the same thing as innocent.

    The point at which life begins is the sticking point to all of this. We cannot say that someone has ended a life that has not begun, simply because something has to begin before it can end. Some religions (Catholicism, for one) define that point even before conception, and interfering with conception occurring is sinful in that view. Some say that life begins AT conception. Others say life begins at birth, while still others say the point at which life begins is when the fetus is capable of living outside the womb, which is to say, to breathe, to feed, etc. Each of these has good arguments in its favor and each has points by which it can be argued against. As long as that question remains one of opinion rather than objective fact, to call the termination of a pregnancy "murder" could include filing murder charges against a 16 year old kid who goes to the pharmacy to buy a pack of rubbers, as equally as the doctor performing the procedure, or the prospective father-to-be who does not want to be, and punches the prospective mother-to-be in the abdomen until she miscarries.

    In the latter, a quick google tells me that, say 15 punches in the belly could constitute 15 different battery charges, which could quickly add up to 40-some-odd years as a guest of the state, and that doesn't include any charge involving death.

    I take issue with the fact that under a total abortion ban, even if Roe was no longer on the table, the woman who miscarries, aka spontaneous abortion, would then have to somehow prove her innocence of violating this law, possibly even having to prove that she didn't consume alcohol or any other substance that induced the miscarriage. Yes, that's worst-case, but not, I think, as outlandish as we might wish.

    I'm not willing to trust the government not to push this to that point.

    Blessings,
    Bill

    I disagree (shocking, I know).

    The myriad of laws we're subject too in differing jurisdictions already confuse and cherry-pick that point. If one can be charged with attempted murder of the unborn in some instances but not others, this is just a legal question of who gets an exception to do it and when.

    I make no apologies that many of us have answers that others still consider unanswered. Perhaps we should all think more. :yesway:
     
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