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  1. #2721
    Grandmaster Fargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpo View Post
    jamil:

    I'm saying that we are NOT headed toward free markets. And we are NOT headed toward liberty. I think you've looked too hard and too long at the "needy" end of the spectrum and may have forgotten that a hot tub filled with banks, big business and big media already run many things and ultimately will run the world economy. I'm against it, of course, but that is the direction we are heading. It doesn't take Kurzweil to see that future.
    If if you guys are going to argue economic theory, will you PLEASE first define your terms? It is already causing problems a couple posts in. Marxism and socialism are not interchangeable and nor are capitalism and the free market. Hell, I really doubt that you are both using the same definition for any of those four terms.

  2. #2722
    Sith Lord of Sarcasm jamil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo View Post
    If if you guys are going to argue economic theory, will you PLEASE first define your terms? It is already causing problems a couple posts in. Marxism and socialism are not interchangeable and nor are capitalism and the free market. Hell, I really doubt that you are both using the same definition for any of those four terms.
    I never said anything about "free market" or "socialism" until I replied to Alpo when he seemed to infer some stuff I didn't imply.

    The context was the war of ideas between what we have now versus what the new crop of Marxists want. And yes. They're Marxists. They don't try to say they're not. Most will proudly declare it.

  3. #2723
    Grandmaster Fargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    I never said anything about "free market" or "socialism" until I replied to Alpo when he seemed to infer some stuff I didn't imply.

    The context was the war of ideas between what we have now versus what the new crop of Marxists want. And yes. They're Marxists. They don't try to say they're not. Most will proudly declare it.
    You said capitalism and he immediately took it to mean robber baron or oligarchic capitalism as is somewhat popular today. You appeared to me to mean a free-market capitalism regulated to avoid robber baron monopolies and to mitigate unequal bargaining position.

    Both are forms of capitalism, which is why I think specificity is really important in economic discussions. Without specificity, people almost always just talk past each other and miss all of the points that they agree on.

  4. #2724
    Marxism I abhor, socialism I can tolerate in certain amounts.
    There's a special place in hell for Carolyn and Roy Bryant.

  5. #2725
    Sith Lord of Sarcasm jamil's Avatar
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    Basically I think Alpo saw "capitalism" and was triggered. Muh socialism!



  6. #2726
    Sith Lord of Sarcasm jamil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    Marxism I abhor, socialism I can tolerate in certain amounts.
    I'm okay with public ownership of roads. I'm okay with public ownership of some public services. Police, fire, corrections. Though I'd also be okay if some of those things were privatized. I'm even okay with a limited public safety net for people who can't provide for themselves, though I prefer private charities. Not an exhaustive list, but you probably get the point of how much socialism I would tolerate.

  7. #2727
    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    I'm okay with public ownership of roads. I'm okay with public ownership of some public services. Police, fire, corrections. Though I'd also be okay if some of those things were privatized. I'm even okay with a limited public safety net for people who can't provide for themselves, though I prefer private charities. Not an exhaustive list, but you probably get the point of how much little socialism I would tolerate.
    Is this a bit closer to what you really mean?
    Government and pedophiles both practice buggering those powerless to defend themselves.

  8. #2728
    Sith Lord of Sarcasm jamil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyDave1776 View Post
    Is this a bit closer to what you really mean?
    Depends how many Libertarians are in the room and how pure they are.

  9. #2729
    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Depends how many Libertarians are in the room and how pure they are.
    We could toss them in water and see if they float. After all, that was Ivory soap's standard for purity.
    Government and pedophiles both practice buggering those powerless to defend themselves.

  10. #2730
    Master Alpo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fargo View Post
    If if you guys are going to argue economic theory, will you PLEASE first define your terms? It is already causing problems a couple posts in. Marxism and socialism are not interchangeable and nor are capitalism and the free market. Hell, I really doubt that you are both using the same definition for any of those four terms.
    I'll stick with neo-feudalism. At least I have most of the scifi authors in history on my side. I'm not sure about Hari Seldon....

    I all too often ran out of talent well before the exit of the turn. (© Señor Mouse)

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