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  1. #2521
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghitch75 View Post
    GoFundMe started to raise money for tunnel building in opposition of Trump's border wall

    https://www.wthr.com/article/gofundm...ps-border-wall
    Out of my innate contrarian urges, if I cared enough, I start one that would raise money to fill in any tunnel that gets started under the wall.
    INGOer #18,319

  2. #2522
    Master Hawkeye's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodFearinGunTotin View Post
    Out of my innate contrarian urges, if I cared enough, I start one that would raise money to fill in any tunnel that gets started under the wall.
    Pumping concrete slurry in should do the trick.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #2523
    Expert SheepDog4Life's Avatar

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    The detailed analysis in the link below indicates that illegal immigration costs federal, state and local governments (i.e. taxpayers) $115 Billion dollars per year, net. And, that doesn't even address the impact due to depressed wages for millions of blue collar workers.

    https://fairus.org/issue/publication...ates-taxpayers

    Building an effective barrier at the border is expensive, but not spending $5 Billion while shelling out $115 Billion EVERY YEAR, is penny-wise, pound-foolish.
    Seen on Facebook: “Love trumping hate involves a lot more assault and arson than I thought it would”

    "I believe in a system of Love and Karma, but, to counterbalance that, if it fails, I'm buying an AK-47..." - Unidentified Californian on Fox News following Antifa protests fascist riots

  4. #2524
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodFearinGunTotin View Post
    Out of my innate contrarian urges, if I cared enough, I start one that would raise money to fill in any tunnel that gets started under the wall.
    Stylish, virtue signaling fools and their money are soon parted.
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

    Marvin the Martian

  5. #2525
    Master PaulF's Avatar

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    5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

    Illegal immigration has been trending downward since 2007. Perhaps coincidentally, 2007 was when DHS began enforcing the use of e-verify on all federal vendors and contractors. E-verify removes an incentive to immigrate illegally, the program is legal and well within the purview of the feds...a strengthening of e-verify can only help, at lest in my view.

    I'm all for pragmatic solutions to practical problems. I really don't like the steel-slat idea, especially if the government intends to run them out in to vast unpopulated areas and not post watch over them...that much unsupervised steel is going to end up in scrap-for-cash yards all over the southwest US and Mexico the minute the construction crews leave.

    Illegal immigration can be influenced through demand-side regulation, but our government is full of people that benefit directly from the labor of those immigrants, so they are reluctant to take any action with real teeth. Violent crime has been trending downward for decades now, and first-generation immigrants are on average less likely to engage in violent criminal behavior than the "average American" (a group that often includes their own children, interestingly enough). We have a free trade agreement with Mexico, and our labor force is already in direct competition with theirs, so if a US employer cannot get the cheap labor they desire here there is little stopping them from opening up shop in Mexico.

    A wall is a solution that makes it harder for good people to conduct their lives freely. It looks down for a solution when the real problem is up...the problem is (as usual) is with a lack of self-awareness and pragmatism within our Federal Government. The problem isn't with the people desperately scrambling for a chance at a better life, it is with the people who exploit their poverty for personal gain.

    If we want to remove the issues we have at our southern border I think the answer isn't to create an impenetrable barrier to keep people where we think they "belong"...rather, the answer has to provide a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions.

    Maybe its time to think about annexing Mexico.

  6. #2526
    Expert SheepDog4Life's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

    Illegal immigration has been trending downward since 2007. Perhaps coincidentally, 2007 was when DHS began enforcing the use of e-verify on all federal vendors and contractors. E-verify removes an incentive to immigrate illegally, the program is legal and well within the purview of the feds...a strengthening of e-verify can only help, at lest in my view.

    ...
    2007, perhaps coincidentally, is the year after the "Secure Fence Act of 2006" was passed and signed into law.

    It's not a choice of either the wall or eVerify. I say both, plus other measures.

    I agree that eVerify should be "mandatory". I.e. using eVerify offers "safe harbor" against illegal employment prosecution... and refusing to use it should remove the need to prove intent in illegal employment prosecutions.

    Additional border and interior enforcement personnel should be added to the mix. Also, add some courts/judges to rapidly hear probable cause hearings to issue warrants for illegal aliens held locally (do away with detainer requests). As it stands, detainers carry no force of law. Warrants do. Violate them only if you are prepared to go to prison.
    Seen on Facebook: “Love trumping hate involves a lot more assault and arson than I thought it would”

    "I believe in a system of Love and Karma, but, to counterbalance that, if it fails, I'm buying an AK-47..." - Unidentified Californian on Fox News following Antifa protests fascist riots

  7. #2527
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    ...the problem is (as usual) is with a lack of self-awareness and pragmatism within our Federal Government...the answer has to provide a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions...
    How do you propose that the U.S. Federal government "provide" a way for people to live the lives they want in their home regions - covering the gigantic swath of countries such a solution would need to cover - while being "pragmatic" and not further bloating the Federal Government or expanding its purview into areas where it shouldn't be?

    ...Keeping in mind that E-verify isn't going to do one, single thing to make people any happier where they are.

    (Which you said "must" be part of the solution).
    Last edited by Twangbanger; 01-06-2019 at 11:16.

  8. #2528
    KG1
    KG1 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

    Illegal immigration has been trending downward since 2007. Perhaps coincidentally, 2007 was when DHS began enforcing the use of e-verify on all federal vendors and contractors. E-verify removes an incentive to immigrate illegally, the program is legal and well within the purview of the feds...a strengthening of e-verify can only help, at lest in my view.

    I'm all for pragmatic solutions to practical problems. I really don't like the steel-slat idea, especially if the government intends to run them out in to vast unpopulated areas and not post watch over them...that much unsupervised steel is going to end up in scrap-for-cash yards all over the southwest US and Mexico the minute the construction crews leave.

    Illegal immigration can be influenced through demand-side regulation, but our government is full of people that benefit directly from the labor of those immigrants, so they are reluctant to take any action with real teeth. Violent crime has been trending downward for decades now, and first-generation immigrants are on average less likely to engage in violent criminal behavior than the "average American" (a group that often includes their own children, interestingly enough). We have a free trade agreement with Mexico, and our labor force is already in direct competition with theirs, so if a US employer cannot get the cheap labor they desire here there is little stopping them from opening up shop in Mexico.

    A wall is a solution that makes it harder for good people to conduct their lives freely. It looks down for a solution when the real problem is up...the problem is (as usual) is with a lack of self-awareness and pragmatism within our Federal Government. The problem isn't with the people desperately scrambling for a chance at a better life, it is with the people who exploit their poverty for personal gain.

    If we want to remove the issues we have at our southern border I think the answer isn't to create an impenetrable barrier to keep people where we think they "belong"...rather, the answer has to provide a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions.

    Maybe its time to think about annexing Mexico.
    None of the things that you have suggested will provide an answer for theses people to live the lives that they want at home any more or less than building a physical barrier will. If that is indeed the answer to the southern border crisis.

    I still feel border security measures including properly constructed strategically placed barriers will help to stem the flow of ALL things illegal from entering the southern border along with interior enforcement measures like e-verify. Then we can focus on comprehensive LEGAL immigration reform policies.

    IMO proper border security should be addressed first in order to deal with internal immigration issues that no one seems to want to deal with right now either.

    Secure the border.
    Last edited by KG1; 01-06-2019 at 14:26.

  9. #2529
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

    Illegal immigration has been trending downward since 2007. Perhaps coincidentally, 2007 was when DHS began enforcing the use of e-verify on all federal vendors and contractors. E-verify removes an incentive to immigrate illegally, the program is legal and well within the purview of the feds...a strengthening of e-verify can only help, at lest in my view.

    I'm all for pragmatic solutions to practical problems. I really don't like the steel-slat idea, especially if the government intends to run them out in to vast unpopulated areas and not post watch over them...that much unsupervised steel is going to end up in scrap-for-cash yards all over the southwest US and Mexico the minute the construction crews leave.

    Illegal immigration can be influenced through demand-side regulation, but our government is full of people that benefit directly from the labor of those immigrants, so they are reluctant to take any action with real teeth. Violent crime has been trending downward for decades now, and first-generation immigrants are on average less likely to engage in violent criminal behavior than the "average American" (a group that often includes their own children, interestingly enough). We have a free trade agreement with Mexico, and our labor force is already in direct competition with theirs, so if a US employer cannot get the cheap labor they desire here there is little stopping them from opening up shop in Mexico.

    A wall is a solution that makes it harder for good people to conduct their lives freely. It looks down for a solution when the real problem is up...the problem is (as usual) is with a lack of self-awareness and pragmatism within our Federal Government. The problem isn't with the people desperately scrambling for a chance at a better life, it is with the people who exploit their poverty for personal gain.

    If we want to remove the issues we have at our southern border I think the answer isn't to create an impenetrable barrier to keep people where we think they "belong"...rather, the answer has to provide a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions.

    Maybe its time to think about annexing Mexico.
    I think that paragraph is kind of ambiguous. I'm not really sure what you mean by providing "a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions". You didn't say "home countries". Are you saying that the border should be open so that people near the border can freely move about within their region? Or did you mean their home countries? If it's the former, not just no, but **** NO! If it's the latter, I'm not sure how practical that is.

    You'd essentially be saying that we'd need to make Mexico great again. I just don't see that as 1) practical, 2) our responsibility. The problem is that Mexico and many of the central American countries are ****holes. And, to the extent that USA policy contributes to those countries being ****holes, we should fix those policies. Making drugs legal in the US might make cartels a little less powerful than they are, for example.

    But those countries are ****holes because they have corrupt governments whose purposes are to exploit their people rather than provide a reasonably safe country. The USA cannot make Mexico great again. At best we can stop contributing to them being ****holes. They have to do the rest for themselves.

    If you're an open boarders advocate, I can see where you would make the highlighted statement above. If you're not, in impenetrable border does not impact their ****holeness one bit. It does, of course, tend to keep them in their ****hole. I think it would be fine to streamline the immigration process to make it easier for migrants to come to the US to work and live. But they do it legally. Maybe offer an expirable migrant worker visa. An impenetrable border is quite compatible with that goal.

    I'm not an open borders advocate. It is immoral for a nation not to protect its citizens from nerdowells. It is reasonable for a nation take steps to secure its own borders, and regulate who is there legally. That can be taken too far. But when you have people trying to flee a ****hole country, it is reasonable to take steps to make sure the **** doesn't come with the majority of hard working immigrants.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if you’re full of ****?

  10. #2530
    livin' in the sticks ghitch75's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

    Illegal immigration has been trending downward since 2007. Perhaps coincidentally, 2007 was when DHS began enforcing the use of e-verify on all federal vendors and contractors. E-verify removes an incentive to immigrate illegally, the program is legal and well within the purview of the feds...a strengthening of e-verify can only help, at lest in my view.

    I'm all for pragmatic solutions to practical problems. I really don't like the steel-slat idea, especially if the government intends to run them out in to vast unpopulated areas and not post watch over them...that much unsupervised steel is going to end up in scrap-for-cash yards all over the southwest US and Mexico the minute the construction crews leave.

    Illegal immigration can be influenced through demand-side regulation, but our government is full of people that benefit directly from the labor of those immigrants, so they are reluctant to take any action with real teeth. Violent crime has been trending downward for decades now, and first-generation immigrants are on average less likely to engage in violent criminal behavior than the "average American" (a group that often includes their own children, interestingly enough). We have a free trade agreement with Mexico, and our labor force is already in direct competition with theirs, so if a US employer cannot get the cheap labor they desire here there is little stopping them from opening up shop in Mexico.

    A wall is a solution that makes it harder for good people to conduct their lives freely. It looks down for a solution when the real problem is up...the problem is (as usual) is with a lack of self-awareness and pragmatism within our Federal Government. The problem isn't with the people desperately scrambling for a chance at a better life, it is with the people who exploit their poverty for personal gain.

    If we want to remove the issues we have at our southern border I think the answer isn't to create an impenetrable barrier to keep people where we think they "belong"...rather, the answer has to provide a way for these people to live the lives they want in their own home regions.

    Maybe its time to think about annexing Mexico.

    at 8am they come through a GATE(guarded) and then at 5pm they go back through a GATE(guarded) not up and over a fence/wall.......they can't stay and we pay there bills....

    then they can work here.....oh and they have to pay taxes to before they take the money back home....
    "I got a shotgun,rifle and 4 wheel drive and country boy can survive!!!"

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