Some more of that AWESOME socialized health care in the UK

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  • OakRiver

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    Absolutely not surprising. I know people who were told similar things; long waitlists, you're too young to qualify for X surgery. What were they told? Either wait and live with your condition, or pay for it privately.
     

    AtTheMurph

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    Or die, like my brother-in-law's aunt. Couldn't get a surgery in 9 months in England for something that she would have had done in the USA within 2 days.

    But she got to get an annual physical for free! Yeah, those are real important.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    I saw a 14yo with horrible scoliosis. No one had picked it up before. No idea how peds or his parents missed that. Anyway, I called Riley and have gave his info. They saw him within a week and operated two days later. But 155 weeks... sure
     

    Woobie

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    Canada is the same. A couple we met at the Proton Beam Radiation center in Bloomington was from Canada. Their little boy had gone deaf because the tumor had grown into the bones in his ears. Canada refused to pay for testing, and told them the headaches would go away. So they came to Indiana to have the brain cancer removed that Canada basically told them wasn't worth messing with.
     

    HoughMade

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    I saw a 14yo with horrible scoliosis. No one had picked it up before. No idea how peds or his parents missed that. Anyway, I called Riley and have gave his info. They saw him within a week and operated two days later. But 155 weeks... sure

    My daughter has a $3,200 brace she sleeps in so that she can have a chance at avoiding surgery. I wonder how long it would take to get one of those over there.

    It's a great? system. Docs don't make any more money for seeing more patients...how many hours would you work? How attractive is it to work so hard to get through school and learn these skills to make not enough? Less hours worked by docs, fewer docs.... Wait times.

    Add to that people who need to take a aspirin and lie down clogging the clinics because it costs them nothing out of pocket and "I pay my taxes".

    No system is perfect, but in many ways that system is much further from perfect than the charlie foxtrot we have.
     
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    jamil

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    My daughter has a $3,200 brace she sleeps in so that she can have a chance at avoiding surgery. I wonder how long it would take to get one of those over there.

    It's a great? system. Docs don't make any more money for seeing more patients...how many hours would you work? How attractive is it to work so hard to get through school and learn these skills to make not enough? Less hours worked by docs, fewer docs.... Wait times.

    Add to that people who need to take a aspirin and lie down clogging the clinics because it costs them nothing out of pocket and "I pay my taxes".

    No system is perfect, but in many ways that system is much further from perfect than the charlie foxtrot we have.

    Maybe we should have socialized lawyering? Might give you more time to INGO. :dunno:
     

    OakRiver

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    I saw a 14yo with horrible scoliosis. No one had picked it up before. No idea how peds or his parents missed that. Anyway, I called Riley and have gave his info. They saw him within a week and operated two days later. But 155 weeks... sure
    You have something to dispute the 155 weeks with besides your incredulity?
     

    hoosierdoc

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    You have something to dispute the 155 weeks with besides your incredulity?


    I'm not disputing it at all, but obviously I was not clear. When we went to Niagara Falls I saw a restaurant with a line out the door. I said I found a Canadian hospital.

    I meant that to say our system is working as I stated, but hey, why not switch to their's. What possible downside could there be?
     

    Libertarian01

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    Many years ago I was invited to a debate on health care at IPFW when President Obama was elected. I was the mean, evil one speaking against socialized medicine.

    This was the foundation of my research about worldwide healthcare: https://www.cato.org/publications/p...ook-national-health-care-systems-around-world

    MULTIPLE news articles about the NHS of Great Britain became my talking points about the negative side of socialized medicine.

    I came to believe that our system of healthcare at the time could use a massive overhaul, and the best improvement would be something that angered patients, insurance companies and the healthcare system. Pandering to just one or two of these three would result in no real improvement and only burden the remaining one or two.

    There will NEVER be a perfect healthcare system as none of us could ever agree upon what IS perfect. And people I consider unrealistic or with unattainable goals can still vote, ergo there is no way to make massive strides.

    I do believe there are some systemic benefits we could improve with by taking ideas from all other systems, yes even socialist ones. That said, those improvements would be limited and be kept in check with other alterations.

    Then there is a larger social concern where chronic disease meets social justice. I don't mean this in just a liberal meaning, but also in a human and decent society one. Here, the chronic disease becomes only one facet of the issue. The other is how we deal with people born with maladies that are lifelong and incurable.

    What do we do with a 25 year old that suffers a permanent brain injury and will be comatose for the rest of their lives? Ignoring the monetary cost do we really want to devote decades of resources on someone who will never contribute to society again? If we say "no" what does that say about our soul? If we say "yes" what does that say about our inability to face facts? And then let's not ignore the monetary cost. Who pays as any familial money would never be able to sustain a person on constant care for decades and even most insurance policies would run out.

    We run into this problem of everyone having a different expectation of what good healthcare means. Do we run to the ER for a minor scrape or hangnail? Some do. Or do we expect every single problem to be cured with a pill or surgery? Some do. How many parents would be content with their doctor telling them, "Your child has the cold. Take them home and give them plenty of bed rest and fluids"? When many parents take their kids in for treatment they expect to get TREATMENT, not advice on how this is petty, just ride it through. This is their angel after all.

    And THEN THERE WAS MY MOTHER who got so sick with massive abdominal pain she couldn't walk yet she refused to call anyone for help, "because I didn't want to bother anyone...":n00b: "Why didn't you call 911?", I asked. Oh she didn't want to pay for the ambulance ride even though she has that ambulance insurance she pays for every year.

    Yeah, you can tell my empathy level on some things isn't very high.

    How often do we use heroic means to save a life, and under what circumstances?

    The problem is that we cannot dance around these issues forever. President Obama was 100% correct in noting problems that existed. My issue is that he was 100% wrong about the solution. As healthcare costs continue to skyrocket we will eventually need to address ALL of these issues, like allowing salesmen inside the operating room when surgeons implant medical devices. Yeah, I have a real ethics issue with that one.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Leadeye

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    My guess is that this country will devolve into a two tier system. Private insurance and top grade care for leadership and anybody who can afford it. Something like the UK for everybody else. Not sure how that will be handled, but if you put enough bureaucracy and security between the best care and masses, people will adjust because they will perceive the alternative as free. Back in the USSR they used to say "floors parquet, docs OK".
     

    jamil

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    What upsets me about the debates about healthcare is that it's just assumed by far too many people that the US healthcare system is free market, and thus it's failure is due to being free market. It doesn't resemble free market much at all until you get into the areas of US healthcare which operate quite well.

    It's not free market when the consumer is taken out of the decision making. I don't get to shop for price. I don't really get much choice other than deciding I want to change providers. And then, I don't get a full choice of providers. I only get the choice of in-group providers unless I want to pay a lot more. Between the government, insurance providers, and even health care providers, to some extent, most of American healthcare is not free market. It's crony market healthcare.

    But. In the high-end healthcare, it does work much more like a free market. The cost of high end cosmetic surgery, for example, hasn't risen in the same order of magnitude as general healthcare. Our health care system is built to extract the most money possible from consumers. Obamacare only exacerbated that.

    The only way to fix it is indeed to rebuild it entirely, and make it a truly market-driven system. It worked like that for many years before cronies took consumers out of decision making.
     
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