US recognizes Jerusalem as capital of Israel

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  • MarkC

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    The Israelis may not be perfect, but they are the only secular democracy in the immediate area, and a reliable and stable ally (except for a bit of spying, right?).

    It is time to quit worrying about whether we are going to upset the Palestinians, and subsidizing their corrupt leaders and their payments to the families of martyrs.

    (Not that I have an opinion on that, or anything.)
     

    OutdoorsGuy

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    A move long overdue. Our nation should've stopped worrying about Palestine way before they starting back sourcing Al Queda weapons. With ISIS in our world today we can make this important decision despite the outcry from Palestinian govt. MY :twocents:
     

    T.Lex

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    The Israelis may not be perfect, but they are the only secular democracy in the immediate area, and a reliable and stable ally (except for a bit of spying, right?).

    It is time to quit worrying about whether we are going to upset the Palestinians, and subsidizing their corrupt leaders and their payments to the families of martyrs.

    (Not that I have an opinion on that, or anything.)

    :)

    I may have missed it, but where was Israel making a big deal out of us using Tel Aviv?

    This doesn't help Israel at all and yet, beyond the Palestinians, could disrupt our relations with other allies.

    I understand not caring about what the Palestinians think. I agree with that part. But, what about the other consequences.

    IMHO, this is an Art of the Deal move. Make a big move, then use it as leverage. Trump has disrupted the dynamic, for not other reason than to disrupt the dynamic. I hope it pays off for him.

    If it does, then indeed, he is the Ultimate Dealmaker. If it doesn't, then we are all likely to be worse off in the long run.
     

    T.Lex

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    A move long overdue. Our nation should've stopped worrying about Palestine way before they starting back sourcing Al Queda weapons. With ISIS in our world today we can make this important decision despite the outcry from Palestinian govt. MY :twocents:

    At least it takes the Russia investigation off the headlines. :) #amiright

    Can we all agree that Trump has fairly earned the label "politician" now?

    I'm far less concerned about the Palestinian reaction than others. Now, if Jordan follows suit and recognizes Jerusalem... well now... I'll be first to say Trump's earned a strong measure of redemption.
     

    Phase2

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    I may have missed it, but where was Israel making a big deal out of us using Tel Aviv?

    This doesn't help Israel at all

    Actually, it helps them quite a bit. It is a cold splash of realization for those who have been working to politically delegitimatize Israel for decades. The US has just put up a big flag saying that Israel has a right to exist as a nation and to define their own capital.

    It gives them great hope that the US is actually acting pro-Israel, unlike the last eight years particularly. That we are living up to the statement that Clinton first made in 1992 to help win a campaign, but never actually acted on. It took a unanimous Senate resolution and Trump to actually start the process to make it happen.
     
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    MarkC

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    :)

    I may have missed it, but where was Israel making a big deal out of us using Tel Aviv?

    This doesn't help Israel at all and yet, beyond the Palestinians, could disrupt our relations with other allies.

    I understand not caring about what the Palestinians think. I agree with that part. But, what about the other consequences.

    IMHO, this is an Art of the Deal move. Make a big move, then use it as leverage. Trump has disrupted the dynamic, for not other reason than to disrupt the dynamic. I hope it pays off for him.

    If it does, then indeed, he is the Ultimate Dealmaker. If it doesn't, then we are all likely to be worse off in the long run.

    You make a good point. My dislike for the Palestinians kind of poured through there.
     

    Thor

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    They consider it so, they are our best allies in the ME. They live in a volcano though...I suppose if we're going to deal with these issues sooner is better than later. It's not like they are getting any less radicalized over there.
     

    T.Lex

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    Actually, it helps them quite a bit. It is a cold splash of realization for those who have been working to politically delegitimatize Israel for decades. The US has just put up a big flag saying that Israel has a right to exist as a nation and to define their own capital.

    The US and most of the world have officially recognized Israel's right to exist since 1949. This does nothing to help in that.

    But, the ME nations who remain holdouts (basically all of them other than Egypt and Jordan) now have a whole new reason not to participate with us in the process.

    Again, it is a huge disruptor. It is unclear how effective it will be.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    I think it's idiotic. It does nothing but gin up the ME. It's not just the Palestinians that going to be offended by this, we have regional allies that this is going to **** off, and lots of American service members put in harm's way.
    We have an embassy in Tel Aviv, right? Someone convince me why the US taxpayers need to spend millions moving and building a new embassy in Jerusalem.
     

    Phase2

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    The US and most of the world have officially recognized Israel's right to exist since 1949. This does nothing to help in that.

    But, the ME nations who remain holdouts (basically all of them other than Egypt and Jordan) now have a whole new reason not to participate with us in the process.

    Again, it is a huge disruptor. It is unclear how effective it will be.

    A multi-decades long process that is no closer to resolution than when it started can be realistically called a failure. This is redefining the situation. It might be better or not in the long-term, but the only insane answer would be continuing with the same process.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    They consider it so, they are our best allies in the ME. They live in a volcano though...I suppose if we're going to deal with these issues sooner is better than later. It's not like they are getting any less radicalized over there.

    I think "most dependent" ally, is more correct. They are our global welfare case.
     

    T.Lex

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    A multi-decades long process that is no closer to resolution than when it started can be realistically called a failure. This is redefining the situation. It might be better or not in the long-term, but the only insane answer would be continuing with the same process.

    By what measure do you say that the current process is "no closer to resolution than when it started." Heck - any starting point you pick, 1949, 1967, 1973, and it is easy to say that we are closer to peace now.

    The case has not been made that this is a good idea, with a tangible goal of moving the process forward. This is disruption with the goal of profiting from the disruption.
     

    Sylvain

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    I think it's idiotic. It does nothing but gin up the ME. It's not just the Palestinians that going to be offended by this, we have regional allies that this is going to **** off, and lots of American service members put in harm's way.
    We have an embassy in Tel Aviv, right? Someone convince me why the US taxpayers need to spend millions moving and building a new embassy in Jerusalem.

    There is already a US consulate in Jerusalem by the way, since 1844.
    I'm not sure if the plan is to turn the consulate into an embassy and vice versa.

    And the US consulate in Jerusalem is now on high alert since the announcement.
    Travel warning to all Americans and consulate employees.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eports-of-trump-move-on-embassy-idUSKBN1DZ2YK

    December 6, 2017
    The recent announcement that the United States recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and plans to relocate the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem may spark protests, some of which have the potential to become violent. The U.S. Consulate General reminds U.S. citizens of the need for caution and awareness of personal security.
    In view of this announcement and the potential for protests, U.S. government employees and their family members are not permitted to conduct personal travel in Jerusalem’s Old City and in the West Bank, to include Bethlehem and Jericho. Official travel by U.S. government employees in Jerusalem’s Old City and in the West Bank is permitted only to conduct essential activities and with additional security measures.

    https://jru.usconsulate.gov/security-message-u-s-citizens-december-6-2017/

    It's interesting to see that the Department of State clearly says that this announcement could potentially put US citizens at risk.

    Hopefully this won't turn into another Benghazi.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    Perhaps we should examine why Palestinians have any claim whatsoever to the city and why it's even up for debate

    i said it in the other thread, half of foreign aid paid to Palestine is paid directly to families of terrorists and martyrs. They get a pension for life if they die killing an Israeli.

    how do you negotiate with that?
     

    9mmfan

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    I looked Israeli government up today. There legislature and supreme court both reside in Jerusalem. So does most of their executive branch.
    Jerusalem has essentially been their capitol in all but name for many years.

    I really don't give a *%it what other countries think of us.

    Maybe they don't want all the foreign aid we give freakin everyone.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    There is already a US consulate in Jerusalem by the way, since 1844.
    I'm not sure if the plan is to turn the consulate into an embassy and vice versa.

    And the US consulate in Jerusalem is now on high alert since the announcement.
    Travel warning to all Americans and consulate employees.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eports-of-trump-move-on-embassy-idUSKBN1DZ2YK



    https://jru.usconsulate.gov/security-message-u-s-citizens-december-6-2017/

    It's interesting to see that the Department of State clearly says that this announcement could potentially put US citizens at risk.

    Hopefully this won't turn into another Benghazi.

    Hottie McHotness Heather Nauert (State Dept Spokesman) seemed to imply that Rex opposed the move.
     
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