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  1. #3101
    Master nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    That you didn't answer the question.

    Again, I'm absolutely NOT judging the people of a certain age who have used that term. Indeed, before a certain time in our country (that timing probably depends on what part of the country), that WAS the polite term.

    But, that's a useful barometer of what generation you are.

    This isn't playing "gotcha." Not everyone who used/uses that word deserves to be in the same category as the neo-nazi/white supremacists who use that word.
    I was raised in a VERY small town. Race was never an issue or even a topic of discussion. When I went to grade school we had eight grades in a one-room school with one teacher and no black students. Later, for high school, I was bused to a town big enough to have a high school and we still didn't have any black students. I don't remember using any term for black people at all because there was no reason to. When I first went to college there were a small number of black students(less than ten) that got along with everybody. Although I do remember in freshman calculus the professor was doing an involved calculation on the board and made a mistake along the way. When he finally found his mistake he said "Oh, there's the n****r in the woodpile." He then realized there was one black student in the class and tried to cover his ass by asking him if he was Indian. The student replied "I am negro." There was a lot of tension in the room for a while but the student defused it. He was already very popular and became even more so after that.

  2. #3102
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    To be clear, I'm not sure what he said was racist - I think it was a dick thing to say.

    (I think he may be "racist" in the old-fashioned way that older people of nearly his generation are: they are just used to looking at people as different races and stereotyping them that way. Not in the neo-nazi/white supremacist way.)
    I think the fact that you need to explain what 'type' of racism you're talking about is just further evidence that the terms racist/racism have been stretched beyond all meaning in order to make a multitude of sins sound nastier and more unconscionable than they likely are

    Most of what SJWs want to denounce as racist is actually prejudiced (jamil has done an excellent job of covering this point previously). James Watson is quite likely racist (believes his own race is genetically superior to others). My Grandmother, GRHS, was prejudiced (born and raised in turn of the century Philadelphia, she had a preconcieved opinion about black people from which she could not be swayed)

    Denouncing the merely prejudiced as racist is just a form of branding, containing no more veracity than most advertising. I'm surprised you would tolerate such inaccuracy
    Who knew liberty would contain so many stems and seeds

  3. #3103
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobaddog View Post
    I was raised in a VERY small town. Race was never an issue or even a topic of discussion. When I went to grade school we had eight grades in a one-room school with one teacher and no black students. Later, for high school, I was bused to a town big enough to have a high school and we still didn't have any black students. I don't remember using any term for black people at all because there was no reason to. When I first went to college there were a small number of black students(less than ten) that got along with everybody. Although I do remember in freshman calculus the professor was doing an involved calculation on the board and made a mistake along the way. When he finally found his mistake he said "Oh, there's the n****r in the woodpile." He then realized there was one black student in the class and tried to cover his ass by asking him if he was Indian. The student replied "I am negro." There was a lot of tension in the room for a while but the student defused it. He was already very popular and became even more so after that.
    Accepting all that at face value then, I don't think I need to explain the generational evolution of race perception in the US to you.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  4. #3104
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    To accept people the way they are... why yes, yes indeed.
    Well, you seem quite the fount of wisdom on 'the way Trump is'

    Still waiting for the acceptance, though
    Who knew liberty would contain so many stems and seeds

  5. #3105
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo59 View Post
    ...that we have been, are and always will be wrong...
    That's funny right there, for it's dark humor as well as the kernel of truth it contains

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mongo59 again.
    Who knew liberty would contain so many stems and seeds

  6. #3106
    Master nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Lex View Post
    Accepting all that at face value then, I don't think I need to explain the generational evolution of race perception in the US to you.
    After a couple years of college I went into the Army and finished my education later. This was during the Viet Nam war and a lot of us went in the Army back then. That was where I heard every racist term ever conceived I think. Although the most blatant racism I saw was by black soldiers in Germany jumping on the tables in the PX or anywhere for that matter shouting "black power" and yelling "power check" over and over while all the black soldiers would raise a fist and yell "power check" back. It was quite an awakening to me to see how much race was on people's minds.

    I disagree with your generalization of people by their age. Actually I disagree with generalization in general but you seem to want to rationalize it anyhow. So to each his own way I guess. I think generalization is just a way of grouping people and it is at the root of racism and a good thing to avoid.

  7. #3107
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobaddog View Post
    After a couple years of college I went into the Army and finished my education later. This was during the Viet Nam war and a lot of us went in the Army back then. That was where I heard every racist term ever conceived I think. Although the most blatant racism I saw was by black soldiers in Germany jumping on the tables in the PX or anywhere for that matter shouting "black power" and yelling "power check" over and over while all the black soldiers would raise a fist and yell "power check" back. It was quite an awakening to me to see how much race was on people's minds.

    I disagree with your generalization of people by their age. Actually I disagree with generalization in general but you seem to want to rationalize it anyhow. So to each his own way I guess. I think generalization is just a way of grouping people and it is at the root of racism and a good thing to avoid.
    At a philosophical level, sure - generalization/categorization/stereotyping can lead to actual racism. Those are the mechanisms. But not all generalization/categorization/stereotyping is racism.

    "American cars suck." While generalization/categorization/stereotyping is not racist.

    "Older people say things that sound racist." While generalization/categorization/stereotyping is not racist.

    A 90 year old Nobel laureate who says black people are dumb because of genetics is racist.
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/...of-his-titles/

    That kind of thing goes beyond social norms.

    My point is more about those social norms. They've evolved. Things that are considered racist now (appropriately) were not always considered to be that. So, people who learned socialization in that time period are somewhat excused (or should be IMHO) from that generalization about certain sentiments.

    There are exceptions going both ways. Super-septuagenarians can certainly be racist. That same group of people can also have individuals who learned social norms differently, and are more modern in their approach.

    Again, I think it is unfair to label Trump as racist for certain things he says that are a product of the time he was raised in.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  8. #3108
    Master nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugI02 View Post
    I think the fact that you need to explain what 'type' of racism you're talking about is just further evidence that the terms racist/racism have been stretched beyond all meaning in order to make a multitude of sins sound nastier and more unconscionable than they likely are

    Most of what SJWs want to denounce as racist is actually prejudiced (jamil has done an excellent job of covering this point previously). James Watson is quite likely racist (believes his own race is genetically superior to others). My Grandmother, GRHS, was prejudiced (born and raised in turn of the century Philadelphia, she had a preconcieved opinion about black people from which she could not be swayed)

    Denouncing the merely prejudiced as racist is just a form of branding, containing no more veracity than most advertising. I'm surprised you would tolerate such inaccuracy
    Good point! Too often I fall into the trap of using the term 'racist' the way the left propaganda media uses it.
    Even the term 'prejudice' is not about race. It is making a decision or judgement without all the facts. It has just as much application to jury duty as it does to racial relations. The meaning has been distorted to refer to 'racial prejudice' by frequent misuse.

  9. #3109
    Master nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Generalization is a logic flaw. It is also flawed logic to assume all old people are racist based on some ex post facto standard. The terms used today may be considered racist some day, maybe tomorrow. That does not change the people - it merely changes the vernacular.

  10. #3110
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobaddog View Post
    Generalization is a logic flaw. It is also flawed logic to assume all old people are racist based on some ex post facto standard. The terms used today may be considered racist some day, maybe tomorrow. That does not change the people - it merely changes the vernacular.
    All racist? No. The vast majority with archaic views concerning people who aren't like themselves (ie religion, region, race, culture, national origin, sex)? Yes, most certainly. The same will be said of us in 50 or 60 years.

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