"If you see something..." Meh

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  • Doug

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    The FBI was shown a facebook post by Nikolas Cruz in November that said he "wanted to be a professional school shooter." They said the couldn't determine who sent it.

    In January, the FBI was given a tip about the Nikolas Cruz who shot up the school that he had guns, was talking about violence, and about shooting up a school. They did not notify the local FBI office.

    Either they get so many reports of people saying they want to commit mass murder that they don't have the manpower to investigate them or "See something, say something" is a nice slogan, but nobody's listening.

    Comments?
     

    MCgrease08

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    Mar 14, 2013
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    I have one minor nit to pick:

    The comment about being a professional school shooter was posted to YouTube, not facebook.

    Other than that, it is disapointing to see how badly the FBI dropped the ball. I really don't know how I feel about the whole "see something say something" campaign in general. On one hand, I understand and sympathize with the need to maintain public safety. I'm not exactly comfortable with the potential for abuse.

    We're already heading down the road toward full blown thought police. Dangerous activity and suspicious behavior is one thing, but I am a bit uneasy about a mechanism that allows people to report activity or speech they don't like. (Think man with a gun call against an open carrier minding their own business at the supermarket.)

    Any investigation based on tips from the public should be deliberate and ensure due process is considered every step of the way.
     

    Leadeye

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    I think more of the story needs to get out before casting judgement on the FBI, who really knew what and when. It's like any other large byzantine federal organization where things get screwed up by pettifogging power hungry dc bureaucrats. Info like this probably should short circuit dc and move directly to the local office with a copy going to dc.
     

    Doug

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    OK, YouTube instead of Facebook; my mistake.

    I agree there is a potential for abuse. The problem is we are getting the danger of abuse without getting the benefit of stopping mass murder. This is a blatant case of ignoring warning signs. Is there any indication that reporting your friends and neighbors has been beneficial?
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    Also his YouTube post HAD HIS DAMN NAME !!! And does anyone believe the FBI couldn't track it back to a high school kid who wasn't even posting under a fake name? Bull crap. FBI lying again. This is all they do. They make constant deals with criminals to catch other criminals but I think they are a bunch of criminals. Not all of the agents but the organization as a whole. Started shady, still is shady
     

    Drail

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    Here comes "PRECRIME ENFORCEMENT" where you can be taken into custody by the Police and forced into an examination by psychiatrists who will determine if you are dangerous, give you anti-psychotic drugs and send you on your way even though you have not broken a single law. Somehow I don't think this is going to fix the problem we're seeing today. We are making these monsters by feeding them drugs that nobody really understands how they work, allowing these people to walk among us and turning schools into gun free zones. We allow teams of armed guards to protect our politicians, actors, Brinks trucks - but not our children because they are apparently just not worth the risk.......
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Like I said in one of the other threads on the topic, there is a reason 911 doesn't go to the FBI.

    I have no idea how many tips the FBI gets, but I know how many we get and most of them are useless. Things like, "three days ago there was a road rage shooting and there's a black car backed into a parking space at my apartment complex that hasn't moved in three days." That's an actual tip, btw. Useless, but still has to be sorted through.

    What I'd suggest is...call 911. This is the sort of thing that local PD's/Sheriff's handle. Like this:

    https://www.kxly.com/news/grandma-calls-911-to-report-grandsons-school-shooting-plans-1/702170515

    Different outcome, likely because the right people had the right information.

    Here comes "PRECRIME ENFORCEMENT" where you can be taken into custody by the Police and forced into an examination by psychiatrists who will determine if you are dangerous, give you anti-psychotic drugs and send you on your way even though you have not broken a single law.

    And we all knew this would pop up at some point. You don't let a rabid dog play with your kids up until he bites one.
     

    BugI02

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    Jul 4, 2013
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    BBI, what is your impression of whether being called in to an interview with the PD/FBI/Both due to reported threatening content on FB or Twitter or whatever kids are using today. Would it be beneficial in making them reconsider such actions as this schools shooting or just drive the preparations underground and put a lid on the pressure cooker of their madness (i.e. make the pressure of their crazy even higher)
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    BBI, what is your impression of whether being called in to an interview with the PD/FBI/Both due to reported threatening content on FB or Twitter or whatever kids are using today. Would it be beneficial in making them reconsider such actions as this schools shooting or just drive the preparations underground and put a lid on the pressure cooker of their madness (i.e. make the pressure of their crazy even higher)

    I could see it going either way, depending on the drive and motivation of the suspect.

    Sort of like suicide. Some people, an intervention is going to get them over the hump, give them time to reconsider, and avert the crisis. Some, though...it's going to happen. Sorting on who's who is not something I'm trained for and would consider well outside my area of expertise. I think the best LE can do is get them in front of the mental health professionals and the judicial system so people who are experts can try to make those determinations.

    Edited to add:

    While being mentally ill is not a crime, we as a society recognize that we need a legal mechanism to intervene when there is a credible threat. Indiana Code allows for both emergency short term detentions and longer term commitments. Different thresholds exist for both.

    https://law.justia.com/codes/indiana/2011/title12/article26/chapter5/
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    Like I said in one of the other threads on the topic, there is a reason 911 doesn't go to the FBI.

    I have no idea how many tips the FBI gets, but I know how many we get and most of them are useless. Things like, "three days ago there was a road rage shooting and there's a black car backed into a parking space at my apartment complex that hasn't moved in three days." That's an actual tip, btw. Useless, but still has to be sorted through.

    What I'd suggest is...call 911. This is the sort of thing that local PD's/Sheriff's handle. Like this:

    https://www.kxly.com/news/grandma-calls-911-to-report-grandsons-school-shooting-plans-1/702170515

    Different outcome, likely because the right people had the right information.



    And we all knew this would pop up at some point. You don't let a rabid dog play with your kids up until he bites one.

    Well I would certainly defer to your knowledge and experience in these matters. I've found that even if the local police can't do much they at least show up and there is a record of it.
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    I read (:dunno:) that there were 20 some odd calls to the local sheriff and we see how that worked out for the dead and wounded.

    39. 39 times they were called to his residence for domestic issues. Crazy
    For me that number just blows my mind. For some of the Leo's on here I bet they have addresses on their beat that probably rivals that number.
    I'm deffinately not a fan of "pre-copping" or "pre-crime" but it just bafles me that we don't have some way to hold people or make them seek help if they threaten schools or cops or government officials, or even just regular citizens.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    Yep my thoughts and basicly words exactly when I first saw that on fox news

    So all of this and the insanity it has caused could and should have been stopped somewhere along that long trail.
    Are we facing a place in our history where those in charge are willing to allow this level of collateral damage to push forward and agenda. And yes, there is an agenda.
     

    churchmouse

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    Either lots of somebody's dropped the ball... or there was no PC of a crime or eligibility for commitment.

    Well, possibly but in light of this we need to review what happened and see what can be modified to at least stand back and objectively look.
    It is obvious this is (as most of the others) a case where no one either paid attention or cared enough to pursue it. I as a member of the gun community am getting damned tired of the assaults from the ignorant left.
     
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