Student Suspended for Refusing to Leave Class During Gun Control Walkout

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    I think this belongs in GenPol? Anyway, the world is upside-down:

    https://ijr.com/2018/03/1076385-ohio-student-suspended-refusing-to-leave-classroom/

    A high school student in Hilliard, Ohio, didn’t want to pick sides in the contentious gun debate surrounding Wednesday’s “National Walkout,” so he stayed in class instead of joining the largely anti-gun protest or an alternative “study hall.”

    Hilliard Davidson High School senior Jacob Shoemaker was then reportedly slapped with a suspension.

    The school district tries to spin it as fake news:

    https://www.10tv.com/article/distri...d-student-suspended-over-walkout-refusal-fake

    Hilliard City Schools said a post claiming a student was suspended for not participating in National Walkout Day is false.


    ...Stacie Raterman, Director of Communications, said the information in the post is false and no students were suspended for participating or not participating in the walkout.

    ...During the time of the walkout, students were given two choices by the school. They could participate in the walkout or go to the commons area of the school.

    Raterman said their policy is they cannot leave students unattended in the building for security reasons.

    She said students who went to the commons area could use it as a study hall.

    So, two thoughts:

    1) Why would a student who refused to participate in a student walkout be alone in the classroom? Where the hell was the teacher? Clearly, the teachers walked out with the students, which leads me to:

    2) Perhaps, instead of having a policy about students being unattended in the building, the school should have a policy that teachers are to stay in their classrooms and teach, instead of participating in unsanctioned acts of mass, civil disobedience.
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
    9,368
    149
    I think this belongs in GenPol? Anyway, the world is upside-down:

    https://ijr.com/2018/03/1076385-ohio-student-suspended-refusing-to-leave-classroom/



    The school district tries to spin it as fake news:

    https://www.10tv.com/article/distri...d-student-suspended-over-walkout-refusal-fake



    So, two thoughts:

    1) Why would a student who refused to participate in a student walkout be alone in the classroom? Where the hell was the teacher? Clearly, the teachers walked out with the students, which leads me to:

    2) Perhaps, instead of having a policy about students being unattended in the building, the school should have a policy that teachers are to stay in their classrooms and teach, instead of participating in unsanctioned acts of mass, civil disobedience.

    Well from the sounds of it, it was sanctioned so it wasn't civil disobedience. And the teachers perhaps could have been assigned to watch the students outside, or the ones in the common area rather than participating. By leaving one teacher in a class with one student it increases the load on the other teachers. Or look at it this way, half the students wished to participate and the other half didn't. If the teachers were to stay in their rooms, the ones participating would be left unsupervised and vice versa. I could actually agree with the suspension.
     

    eldirector

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 29, 2009
    14,677
    113
    Brownsburg, IN
    IT WAS A WALK OUT. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNSUPERVISED.

    Teachers should have stayed in class. Students that left class should have faced disciplinary action. Without the risk of discipline, this is meaningless, and not a protest AT ALL.

    Heck, teachers that left their class should have faced disciplinary action.

    Otherwise, this was just a field trip. The whole point of civil disobedience is to be disobedient. Civilly.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    Well from the sounds of it, it was sanctioned so it wasn't civil disobedience.


    And therein lies the problem. Schools exist to teach. Schools operate using money levied from taxpayers, who are paying the schools to teach, and not to engage in political theater.

    And the teachers perhaps could have been assigned to watch the students outside, or the ones in the common area rather than participating. By leaving one teacher in a class with one student it increases the load on the other teachers. Or look at it this way, half the students wished to participate and the other half didn't. If the teachers were to stay in their rooms, the ones participating would be left unsupervised and vice versa.

    Teachers should have been assigned to their classrooms, where they belong, and where they are being paid - by the taxpayers - to be. Every teacher who participated in the walkout should have their pay docked. Every administrator who sanctioned the school's involvement should be fired.

    I could actually agree with the suspension.

    Right. The student who decided to stay in class is the one who gets suspended. Like I said: the world is upside-down.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    IT WAS A WALK OUT. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNSUPERVISED.

    Teachers should have stayed in class. Students that left class should have faced disciplinary action. Without the risk of discipline, this is meaningless, and not a protest AT ALL.

    Heck, teachers that left their class should have faced disciplinary action.

    Otherwise, this was just a field trip. The whole point of civil disobedience is to be disobedient. Civilly.

    The Director gets it. :yesway:
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,693
    113
    .
    Meh, it the education industrial complex. The way they see it, your opinion doesn't matter so just shut up and pay those taxes.

    Over the years of my sons education from kindergarten through college I ran into plenty of high handed teachers and administration. Where it was legal to tell them to pound sand, I did.
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
    9,368
    149
    IT WAS A WALK OUT. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNSUPERVISED.

    Teachers should have stayed in class. Students that left class should have faced disciplinary action. Without the risk of discipline, this is meaningless, and not a protest AT ALL.

    Heck, teachers that left their class should have faced disciplinary action.

    Otherwise, this was just a field trip. The whole point of civil disobedience is to be disobedient. Civilly.

    I'm not disagreeing, yep it was pretty much a field trip.

    [/B]And therein lies the problem. Schools exist to teach. Schools operate using money levied from taxpayers, who are paying the schools to teach, and not to engage in political theater.

    Teachers should have been assigned to their classrooms, where they belong, and where they are being paid - by the taxpayers - to be. Every teacher who participated in the walkout should have their pay docked. Every administrator who sanctioned the school's involvement should be fired.

    Right. The student who decided to stay in class is the one who gets suspended. Like I said: the world is upside-down.

    Again not saying I agree with the schools sanctioning it. But as said it was pretty much a field trip, heck it could be justified as being educational by saying they were letting the students learn about political activism or such. If a student decided to stay in the classroom if not going on a field trip, rather than going to an assigned place, I would probably agree with the suspension also. My local school had a "field trip" to watch a house being moved down the street. Interesting to watch perhaps, but not really all that educational at least not at the age of the students. They have also had "field trips" for other things that are not educational. Is going outside to watch the Olympic torch going down the road educational? An elementary school in my town had a memorial ceremony for one of the students who was murdered, educational? Not in my opinion. But I don't have a problem with it. If this had simply been a memorial ceremony for those killed, I wouldn't have a problem with it either.
     

    luger fan

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 8, 2018
    308
    18
    Indy
    Meh, it the education industrial complex. The way they see it, your opinion doesn't matter so just shut up and pay those taxes.

    Over the years of my sons education from kindergarten through college I ran into plenty of high handed teachers and administration. Where it was legal to tell them to pound sand, I did.


    Good for you. You can break laws without intent or even knowing it. I once blocked a bidder on G-broker because he had too many Non Paying Bidder History. he threatened to sue me for being a racist, how did he know my race or how was I supposed to know his?

    Didn't matter. This idiot THOUGHT he was wronged.
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,614
    149
    Valparaiso
    So it seems to me:

    If you are going to walk out, go to A. If you are not going to walk out, go to B.

    -I refuse to do either.

    A or B are your choices.

    -Don't care.

    If you don't want to walk out, fine. Go to B.

    - No

    No?

    - No.

    OK, you're suspended.

    Seems legit to me.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    I'm not disagreeing, yep it was pretty much a field trip.



    Again not saying I agree with the schools sanctioning it. But as said it was pretty much a field trip, heck it could be justified as being educational by saying they were letting the students learn about political activism or such. If a student decided to stay in the classroom if not going on a field trip, rather than going to an assigned place, I would probably agree with the suspension also. My local school had a "field trip" to watch a house being moved down the street. Interesting to watch perhaps, but not really all that educational at least not at the age of the students. They have also had "field trips" for other things that are not educational. Is going outside to watch the Olympic torch going down the road educational? An elementary school in my town had a memorial ceremony for one of the students who was murdered, educational? Not in my opinion. But I don't have a problem with it. If this had simply been a memorial ceremony for those killed, I wouldn't have a problem with it either.

    The problem is, this was none of those things. It wasn't a memorial. It wasn't a field trip. It wasn't intended to be educational. It was blatant political indoctrination and propaganda.
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    So it seems to me:

    If you are going to walk out, go to A. If you are not going to walk out, go to B.

    -I refuse to do either.

    A or B are your choices.

    -Don't care.

    If you don't want to walk out, fine. Go to B.

    - No

    No?

    - No.

    OK, you're suspended.

    Seems legit to me.

    Seems simply doesn't it?
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    So it seems to me:

    If you are going to walk out, go to A. If you are not going to walk out, go to B.

    How about: "if you are going to walk out... then you will be suspended."? Maybe the school should be starting there, eh?

    Do you see the sort of illogical pretzel into which the school must contort itself, in order to pander to rulebreakers who walk out of school?

    -I refuse to do either.

    A or B are your choices.

    -Don't care.

    If you don't want to walk out, fine. Go to B.

    - No

    No?

    - No.

    OK, you're suspended.

    Seems legit to me.

    How about: I'm in school. I expect to be taught, in class, by my teacher. Expecting to be taught, in class, by your teacher? Yes, that is indeed legit.

    The school pandering to the actual rulebreakers - i.e. the students participating in the walkout - is not legit.

    Yet another reason why we homeschool. I would not put up with that bull****. The school board would have a legal fight on its hands if it tried to enforce such a suspension on one of my children.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    Seems simply doesn't it?

    You know what's even more simple? Punishing the students who actually break the rules, by walking out of class - and teaching the students who follow the rules, by being present in their classrooms during class.
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
    9,368
    149
    So it seems to me:

    If you are going to walk out, go to A. If you are not going to walk out, go to B.

    Seems legit to me.

    Pretty much.

    The problem is, this was none of those things. It wasn't a memorial. It wasn't a field trip. It wasn't intended to be educational. It was blatant political indoctrination and propaganda.

    Could be, but if it was the students who wanted to do it, and the school agreed to let them do that. How was it "blatant political indoctrination and propaganda.". Sounds like the students need any indoctrination or propaganda. At least not from the school.

    How about: "if you are going to walk out... then you will be suspended."? Maybe the school should be starting there, eh?

    Do you see the sort of illogical pretzel into which the school must contort itself, in order to pander to rulebreakers who walk out of school?

    How about: I'm in school. I expect to be taught, in class, by my teacher. Expecting to be taught, in class, by your teacher? Yes, that is indeed legit.

    The school pandering to the actual rulebreakers - i.e. the students participating in the walkout - is not legit.

    Yet another reason why we homeschool. I would not put up with that bull****. The school board would have a legal fight on its hands if it tried to enforce such a suspension on one of my children.

    Yep the school could have started there, but they didn't.

    So what did you do during pep rallies and such? Stomp your feet and demand to stay in the classroom by yourself with a teacher?

    If the school choose to allow it, they weren't the rule breakers. The student who was suspended was. If you believe the rule breakers should be punished, why are you complaining about the student who broke the rules being suspended?

    Yep, and you are free to do so if you believe that is best for your child. More power to you, and I mean that sincerely.

    You know what's even more simple? Punishing the students who actually break the rules, by walking out of class - and teaching the students who follow the rules, by being present in their classrooms during class.

    Except they didn't break the rules. The school allowed it so what they did was within the rules. The student demanding to stay in the classroom was the one that did. You don't like that the school allowed it, so your ticked that they punished this kid. I get it, I don't like that the school allowed it either.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Well from the sounds of it, it was sanctioned so it wasn't civil disobedience. And the teachers perhaps could have been assigned to watch the students outside, or the ones in the common area rather than participating. By leaving one teacher in a class with one student it increases the load on the other teachers. Or look at it this way, half the students wished to participate and the other half didn't. If the teachers were to stay in their rooms, the ones participating would be left unsupervised and vice versa. I could actually agree with the suspension.

    What....really......seriously.....Wow.
     

    KokomoDave

    Enigma Suspect
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    75   0   0
    Oct 20, 2008
    4,500
    149
    Kokomo
    I say that the student who wanted to be educated was well in his right to demand to be educated. It's the law. You go to school or are home schooled but either way, the law says you are to attend school. I would've taken the suspension if I was the student also but I was known as a problem child...still same except now I'm the problem grandpops that can't fit into this apathetic society of self involved instant gratification kids who cannot figure out anything without Google or YouTube tutorials. I like being a journeyman millwright who can fix stuff, weld, fabricate metal and move heavy machinery.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,943
    113
    Avon
    So what did you do during pep rallies and such? Stomp your feet and demand to stay in the classroom by yourself with a teacher?

    A pep rally is a school function. A walkout is not. Fullstop.

    If the school choose to allow it, they weren't the rule breakers.

    The school doesn't get to set rules to allow a walkout. The state has something to say about that.

    The student who was suspended was. If you believe the rule breakers should be punished, why are you complaining about the student who broke the rules being suspended?

    So, your claim is that the student, sitting in the classroom, during school hours, during his scheduled time to be in that classroom, being instructed by his teacher, is the one who was breaking the rules?

    That is absurd on its face.

    Except they didn't break the rules. The school allowed it so what they did was within the rules. The student demanding to stay in the classroom was the one that did. You don't like that the school allowed it, so your ticked that they punished this kid. I get it, I don't like that the school allowed it either.

    Yes, they did. A student-led walkout is explicitly against the rules. The school doesn't have the authority to sanction it.
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
    9,368
    149
    What....really......seriously.....Wow.

    I did say perhaps. Although honestly where they were was probably teachers choice, although if there weren't enough volunteers for either area I could see them being assigned one or the other.

    A pep rally is a school function. A walkout is not. Fullstop.

    The school doesn't get to set rules to allow a walkout. The state has something to say about that.

    So, your claim is that the student, sitting in the classroom, during school hours, during his scheduled time to be in that classroom, being instructed by his teacher, is the one who was breaking the rules?

    That is absurd on its face.

    Yes, they did. A student-led walkout is explicitly against the rules. The school doesn't have the authority to sanction it.

    A school authorized walkout is a school function, just like a school authorized pep rally.

    Can you show me where in the IC or state of your choice?

    Yes. He had two options, either go outside or go to another area.

    How is it absurd? I'll use the pep rally again, the school authorizes the cheer leading team to have a pep rally. The students are given a choice, either attend the pep rally or go to the library. A student says no, I'm gonna stomp my feet and hold my breath and sit somewhere else. Is he not breaking the rules?

    Can you show me where in the rules, that a student led walkout that is once again authorized by the school is against the rules?

    You seem to be getting hung up on the student led part, I don't know about your schools but the pep rallies at mine were "student led".
     
    Top Bottom