Hidden Tribes - The left ain’t gonna like this

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • snorko

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    361   0   0
    Apr 3, 2008
    8,293
    113
    Evansville, IN
    In 1990 the CIA released a report which, among other items, predicted the potential full Balkanization of the USA in 50 years. Half way there. Saved full report for later read.
     

    Herr Vogel

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 10, 2018
    180
    18
    Rossburg
    Reading through it now. It's amusing how they classify anyone right of center as 'fringe', while including anyone less radical than Antifa as a part of the 'moderate majority'.
     

    Twangbanger

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Oct 9, 2010
    7,062
    113
    The piece is somewhat interesting, and I got sucked into skimming it over pretty good. The underlying study seems to rely heavily on binary, "Black/White" questions for dividing people up into groups. Taken at face-value, I'm struck by how the far-left believes society is so rigged that your success in life is mostly outside your control. That is a profoundly outside-the-mainstream belief, even by modern standards.

    Of course, the study recites the increasingly-tired canard about how conservatives "fear" the world, and feel it is unsafe. There is some support for this, however the authors seem to miss the similar mindset on the left. Both Far-left and far-right people posit the existence of a "malevolent universe," it seems to me they just attribute the source of that danger differently. Left-wingers believe the world is safe but not just; Right-wingers believe it's just but not safe.

    Overall though, I read this study and just cannot see myself in it. I don't see what it solves or explains, that we didn't already know.
     
    Last edited:

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,142
    113
    Gtown-ish
    The piece is somewhat interesting, and I got sucked into skimming it over pretty good. The underlying study seems to rely heavily on binary, "Black/White" questions for dividing people up into groups. Taken at face-value, I'm struck by how the far-left believes society is so rigged that your success in life is mostly outside your control. That is a profoundly outside-the-mainstream belief, even by modern standards.

    Of course, the study recites the increasingly-tired canard about how conservatives "fear" the world, and feel it is unsafe. There is some support for this, however the authors seem to miss the similar mindset on the left. Both Far-left and far-right people posit the existence of a "malevolent universe," it seems to me they just attribute the source of that danger differently. Left-wingers believe the world is safe but not just; Right-wingers believe it's just but not safe.


    Overall though, I read this study and just cannot see myself in it. I don't see what it solves or explains, that we didn't already know.

    I thought the purpose is pretty clear. They're just trying to provide some insights into the nature of the divisions into these categories. The questions aren't THAT binary since they tend to range from strongly disagree to strongly agree. But the study did say the purpose was to ask us/them kinds of questions to see where where the lines are drown between in-groups.

    Some interesting findings: Education. The Progressive Activist group has the highest education of any of the groups. I strongly suspect the education they got drove a lot of their activism. I suppose there are some different ways to interpret the data, and one of those ways is to conclude that Progressive Activists are the smartest group. But I think it's more that a very left-biased hegemony is very common in higher education. And depending on the field, they're probably taught by other Progressive Activists. To put it bluntly, the grievance studies courses are a ****ing cult.
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,142
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Reading through it now. It's amusing how they classify anyone right of center as 'fringe', while including anyone less radical than Antifa as a part of the 'moderate majority'.

    Hold on though. It's "exhausted majority" not "moderate majority". They didn't classify the outer groups as "fringe". They classified Traditional Conservatives and Devoted Conservatives as the right wing. Alone on the left was Progressive Activists. The idea was to distinguish the groups that had the most in common from the groups that had the least in common. If you look through the numbers, the data support that. For example, the number of atheists/agnostics in the two conservative groups was nearly zero, but were quite common among all the other groups.

    However, there were some issues where the Progressive Activists were all alone. The one that stands out most is political correctness. In political correctness favorable/unfavorable, even the traditional liberals were in the 70th percentile, while the bat **** crazy people were in the 20s. So that means, in this ****ed up politically correct universe we have going on here, only a small percentage of the population actually gives a **** about it. But because they've positioned themselves as gatekeepers in many areas, media, education, and now even business, they're forcing all that nonsense on people who don't want it.

    The reason I titled this the way I did, it shows that what they classify as the left wing, is mostly alone in their bat-****tery, and this group only makes up 8% of the population. So, if the rest of us can only come together on one thing, it should be to deprogram the progressive cultists.
     

    Notropis

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 22, 2018
    98
    8
    NWI
    I think this report makes everyone look terrible, equally (almost). Republicans beat the drum of terrorism - sure enough right wing rank high in that fear even though statistically you are more likely to be harmed by a marshmallow. Liberals beat the drum on how Trump is a monster and left wing ranks high on that fear. But it is pleasing to see that once you get away from recent talking point issues, the vast majority of people see things as I largely see them (meaning there are many things nearly all Americans can agree upon). I'm only on page 60 but honestly, the right wing seems just as susceptible to complete falsehoods and propaganda as the Socialist nutjobs.
     

    GIJEW

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Mar 14, 2009
    2,716
    47
    I just skimmed through it. I don't understand the basis for classifying "traditional conservatives" as being (right) "wing" while "traditional liberals" were classified as part of the "exhausted majority" when the two groups seem to be mirror images.

    My first impression was that the choice and wording of the survey questions reflected a liberal bias and were "either-or". If I'd been surveyed I would have felt that someone was putting words in my mouth and refused to play. That seems to be typical of survey questions though and is more of an observation than criticism
     

    Dead Duck

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    53   0   0
    Apr 1, 2011
    14,062
    113
    .
    "Hidden Tribes" Mmmmmm....

    I wonder if Elizabeth Warren will get her own chapter?









    It's from Stephen Hawkins so it must be true...... Hawking ....Hawkins ....Hawking...... Uh Oh. :n00b:
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,142
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Hmmm. Only one category seems to have a racial descriptor - but I'm sure its just a Freudian Slip and not an indication of bias or anything :laugh:


    View attachment 70871

    Not that racial breakdown in any of the groups should matter even a little, if you’re looking at it matter-of-factly, they do kinda have the facts correct on that. Non-whites as a part of the far right is extremely rare. All the other groups have a fair representation of Blacks and other non-white races, including traditional conservatives. Not saying there are zero non-whites in the devoted conservatives. I subscribe to a few of them on YouTube. The Doctor of Common Sense cones to mind. That dude is hilarious. Sometimes without trying.
     

    BigBoxaJunk

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 9, 2013
    7,314
    113
    East-ish
    One dynamic that I've not seen explored in detail, but I think may be much under-considered is the extent to which rationality of direction diminishes as population increases.

    I think it's a mistake to believe that, since we are rational beings, all outcomes in politics and society in general are based on rationality. The population break-down of weed species in my field is influenced by many factors, and rationality isn't one of those. I think it's possible that the same kinds of factors affect human dynamics in ways that are often mistaken for rationality, just because we're individually capable of rational thinking.
     

    rob63

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    May 9, 2013
    4,282
    77
    One dynamic that I've not seen explored in detail, but I think may be much under-considered is the extent to which rationality of direction diminishes as population increases.

    I think it's a mistake to believe that, since we are rational beings, all outcomes in politics and society in general are based on rationality. The population break-down of weed species in my field is influenced by many factors, and rationality isn't one of those. I think it's possible that the same kinds of factors affect human dynamics in ways that are often mistaken for rationality, just because we're individually capable of rational thinking.

    There is a branch of social psychology that argues that people are not rational at all, but instead make decisions based upon intuition and then use rational thought to try to justify the conclusion that was already arrived at. The study in the op hints at it when it discusses Moral Foundations on Page 87 and shows in Fig. 11 that the different tribes have different moral foundations.

    It all falls in line with the idea that we make decisions using these moral foundations (intuition) and since the different tribes have different moral foundations they quickly arrive at different conclusions. Those decisions are then impervious to the rational arguments used by the other tribe because they were never really rational decisions in the first place. They are based upon the different moral foundations and rational arguments that use a different moral foundation are not persuasive to a different tribe.

    Here is an article that explains it a little better. Ignore the fact that it is the NY Times, or that the professor is liberal, it is aimed at liberals, etc. It explains it pretty well and it is an interesting idea.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/the-righteous-mind-by-jonathan-haidt.html
     
    Top Bottom