"I Vote For The Man" An Outdated Concept....

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  • Ingomike

    Grandmaster
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    May 26, 2018
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    It oft said by, particularly seasoned individuals, that "I vote for the man" and it is usually worn as a badge indicating they are smart and independent. Horse Hockey!

    There was a time, and our elders were right when they said it for their time, but that time has passed. In Federal elections today the vote is for the team, not the individual. There are some variations on the team accounting for regional differences but in the end the team members vote with the team an astounding percentage of the time, there is no independence in DC today.

    Yesterday Pelosi and AOC made clear that it is team voting not individuals making independent decisions and it works the same accross the isle.

    the Democrats conducted a closed-door session during which House Speaker Nancy Pelosi warned over 20 supposed moderate members of her party, “We are either a team or we’re not, and we have to make that decision.”

    Ocasio-Cortez’s spokesman Corbin Trent added that she fumed that any Democrats voting with Republicans “are putting themselves on a list.”

    This is how the elected see it, the old school naïveté does not fly today. Vote for the "man" in the primary but in the election the only thing being voted on is the team.

    MM

     
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    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    You vote for the Democrat and you are voting for gun control. Support them AT ANY LEVEL and you are supporting their ultimate goal of completely disarming us. Simple as that.

    In many elections, the same can be said for throwing away your vote on a third party that cannot win. And of course, opting out of voting is standing back to let them have their way. :twocents:
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    I'm gong to keep being 'Stupid'.

    I'm going to research the issues, and checking on vote record of incumbents.
    I'm going to keep hearing out the prospects seeing where they stand on this issues,
    And I'm going to continue voting for less incumbents that don't do what they said they were going to do,
    And vote for someone new that hasn't lied about their positions.

    Since I vote issues AND RECORDS, I only know one way to do this, so it's going to take time & effort.
    While an election is a Popularity Contest, electing the 'Cult Of Personality' candidates hasn't worked out well for the country.
     

    Expat

    Pdub
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    Feb 27, 2010
    108,736
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    Michiana
    My Grandpa used to say "I always vote for the man, it isn't my fault that has always been the Republican".
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,886
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    Columbus, OH
    I'm gong to keep being 'Stupid'.

    I'm going to research the issues, and checking on vote record of incumbents.
    I'm going to keep hearing out the prospects seeing where they stand on this issues,
    And I'm going to continue voting for less incumbents that don't do what they said they were going to do,
    And vote for someone new that hasn't lied about their positions.


    Since I vote issues AND RECORDS, I only know one way to do this, so it's going to take time & effort.

    Glad to hear you'll be voting Trump! Welcome, hermano
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
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    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    My Grandpa used to say "I always vote for the man, it isn't my fault that has always been the Republican".

    My dad, a hard core Republican, didn't care much to be confronted/hollered at...
    Keep in mind he was leaning on a political sign in line to vote at the time.

    A SCREECHING, nearly hysterical woman got in his face screaming her grandfather was a republican, her dad was a republican, she was a republican and her kids will be republican!
    And I mean at the top of her lungs...

    Dad, very calmly said, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was a inherited birth defect." And slipped around her to go vote...

    I have no idea why politics makes people so insane, but it sure does!
     

    Ingomike

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    May 26, 2018
    28,161
    113
    North Central
    I'm gong to keep being 'Stupid'.

    I'm going to research the issues, and checking on vote record of incumbents.
    I'm going to keep hearing out the prospects seeing where they stand on this issues,
    And I'm going to continue voting for less incumbents that don't do what they said they were going to do,
    And vote for someone new that hasn't lied about their positions.

    Since I vote issues AND RECORDS, I only know one way to do this, so it's going to take time & effort.
    While an election is a Popularity Contest, electing the 'Cult Of Personality' candidates hasn't worked out well for the country.

    It the issues and records of the parties now, not individuals for congressional offices. In Presidential elections not much one can do, give it to one team or the other...

    The past election was an anomaly in that a true outsider was on the ballot.


    MM
     
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    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
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    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
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    SW Indiana
    The biggest question I have for everyone that rants & raves about politics is "What are your candidate's qualifications?"

    When they stutter, stammer, and start telling me what someone "Said"...
    I try to GENTLY (because they are confused and I don't want to trip them into fear/anger) ask them about their candidate's education,
    Where did they go to school?, what did they major in?, what jobs or positions did they hold?
    How that education/job experience qualify them for the position they are running for?

    Usually, completely blank look (or the 7 letter salute 'F*** You').

    I asked the question after I realized you shouldn't have a job you aren't qualified for,
    And that took me WAY, WAY too long to realize...

    Upper level combat troops take between 2 & 3 years to train and that's 24/7 immersion training.
    Engineers take at least 4 years to train before they hit an entry level position.
    Surgeons take 12 years to fully train.
    NASA didn't hire goat milkers to fly the space shuttle...
    The list goes on...

    Continuing that thought...
    Wouldn't someone with a background in CONSTITUTIONAL studies be a good start?
    That would stop a BUNCH of the mistakes right off the bat.
    (If you try to mess with the Constitutional rights, you better have an iron clad reason!)

    We got quite a bit of political science training in the military so we didn't run over the 'Rights' of citizens in other countries.
    They didn't call it political science, but that's what it was...

    Shouldn't the presidential candidate have SOME experience in EXECUTIVE GOVERNING?
    Mayor of large city, state governor, senior theater military commander, SOMETHING where they had to deal with all sides and their respective rights?
    This would exclude all junior members of the Senate right from the start since the Senate is legislative, not executive.
     

    cce1302

    Master
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    Jun 26, 2008
    3,397
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    Back down south
    I vote for liberty.

    Unfortunately, that's rarely republican or democrat. Both want to get the government involved in places where they have no business being.
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    It the issues and records of the parties now, not individuals for congressional offices. In Presidential elections not much one can do, give it to one team or the other...

    The past election was an anomaly in that a true outsider was on the ballot.


    MM

    I don't particularly agree with that, even though both sides are running in dog packs more and more...

    Parties, mostly Congress, still have cross over, people that vote the issues no matter the party line, but I agree it's getting worse.

    The last presidential election was more of a freak show than an anomaly! What a mess...
    Violations of the Hatch Act EVERYWHERE, more 'Soft' & 'Black' money that ever before, both democrats & republicans screwing their OWN candidates, so much disinformation no one could fact check/cut through all of it, and the list goes on...

    I'm an average voter from the woods in Indiana, and I was completely dumbfounded and I was actually paying attention...
    Not a great intellect, no inside information, and a limited pipeline for information, and there were times I just wanted to shoot the internet!

    Add into this the emotion, the vitriol in this election, I lost friends that went back to childhood simply because I wanted to DISCUSS viewpoints/issues that came up, absolutely NO discussion, it was "My Way Or The Highway" mentality...
    People that had never been in a fight and wouldn't harm someone for anything siding with white supremacists propaganda, even marriages splitting up...
    I've never seen anything like it before.

    It's more than two years after that election, and most of the crap still isn't sorted out...
    I have zero idea where this will go, for the first time in nearly 60 years I don't have any idea how this mess will turn out.
    I avoid any debates simply because I'm getting older and I don't want to lose anymore long time friends, and that ISN'T normal in my world and it's not the way it's supposed to work...

    If you have any insight, I'd sure like to hear it!
     

    JeepHammer

    SHOOTER
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 2, 2018
    1,904
    83
    SW Indiana
    Which Democrats aren't for gun control? What is their party's position on this?

    I'm not a single issue voter.

    I also know there are two houses of Congress any 'Gun Control' has to pass,
    Then it has to get by the President,
    Then it has to get by the Supreme Court...

    'Gun Control' doesn't bother me as much as some other issues since the Supreme Court is going to be a HUGE roadblock to any sweeping changes, I believe other things are more pressing,
    I do keep an eye on gun control as AN ISSUE, but not THE ISSUE.


    I vote for liberty.

    Unfortunately, that's rarely republican or democrat. Both want to get the government involved in places where they have no business being.

    I somewhat agree...
    'Liberty' is a concept,
    While the Constitution is a physical, tangible thing...
    I have often said I'm a Constitutionalist, the Constitution being what grants & guarantees your 'Liberty'.

    That's my view point, feel free to disagree...
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
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    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
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    Fort Wayne
    You vote for the Democrat and you are voting for gun control. Support them AT ANY LEVEL and you are supporting their ultimate goal of completely disarming us. Simple as that.

    In many elections, the same can be said for throwing away your vote on a third party that cannot win. And of course, opting out of voting is standing back to let them have their way. :twocents:

    So, if I vote with discretion, I'm supporting gun control.
    If I vote straight ticket, then I'm a mindless sheep.



    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
     

    cce1302

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Jun 26, 2008
    3,397
    48
    Back down south
    I somewhat agree...
    'Liberty' is a concept,
    While the Constitution is a physical, tangible thing...
    I have often said I'm a Constitutionalist, the Constitution being what grants & guarantees your 'Liberty'.

    That's my view point, feel free to disagree...

    Yeah, I consider it a "principle" more than a concept. And yeah, the constitution recognizes liberty. It guarantees it in theory, but the practice of liberty is up to us.
     

    Ingomike

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    May 26, 2018
    28,161
    113
    North Central
    I don't particularly agree with that, even though both sides are running in dog packs more and more...

    Parties, mostly Congress, still have cross over, people that vote the issues no matter the party line, but I agree it's getting worse.

    The last presidential election was more of a freak show than an anomaly! What a mess...
    Violations of the Hatch Act EVERYWHERE, more 'Soft' & 'Black' money that ever before, both democrats & republicans screwing their OWN candidates, so much disinformation no one could fact check/cut through all of it, and the list goes on...

    I'm an average voter from the woods in Indiana, and I was completely dumbfounded and I was actually paying attention...
    Not a great intellect, no inside information, and a limited pipeline for information, and there were times I just wanted to shoot the internet!

    Add into this the emotion, the vitriol in this election, I lost friends that went back to childhood simply because I wanted to DISCUSS viewpoints/issues that came up, absolutely NO discussion, it was "My Way Or The Highway" mentality...
    People that had never been in a fight and wouldn't harm someone for anything siding with white supremacists propaganda, even marriages splitting up...
    I've never seen anything like it before.

    It's more than two years after that election, and most of the crap still isn't sorted out...
    I have zero idea where this will go, for the first time in nearly 60 years I don't have any idea how this mess will turn out.
    I avoid any debates simply because I'm getting older and I don't want to lose anymore long time friends, and that ISN'T normal in my world and it's not the way it's supposed to work...

    If you have any insight, I'd sure like to hear it!

    I hear you and empathize with your position, but do believe it is naive to think their are truly "crossover" voters in congress. Forbes reported it is now 90% party line voting.

    "party-line voting has become the new normal. As recently as the early 1970s, party unity voting was around 60% but today it is closer to 90% in both the House and Senate."

    MM
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
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    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey
    I have often said I'm a Constitutionalist, the Constitution being what grants & guarantees your 'Liberty'.

    That's my view point, feel free to disagree...

    I don't disagree, but if you're torn on which party (ies) best represent your viewpoint, then maybe you should abstain from voting. The choices are clear. The lines have been drawn, in terms of ideology. One side is hedging all bets that socialism is the way to go, and they will push that to the hilt, and never, ever, stop. If you don't agree with that, you'll support the other party. There is really no ambiguousness.

    .
     

    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    7   0   0
    Dec 29, 2017
    18,920
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    1,000 yards out
    It oft said by, particularly seasoned individuals, that "I vote for the man" and it is usually worn as a badge indicating they are smart and independent. Horse Hockey!

    There was a time, and our elders were right when they said it for their time, but that time has passed. In Federal elections today the vote is for the team, not the individual.



    I would like to see a vote called to dissolve the federal government.
     

    cce1302

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Jun 26, 2008
    3,397
    48
    Back down south
    I don't disagree, but if you're torn on which party (ies) best represent your viewpoint, then maybe you should abstain from voting. The choices are clear. The lines have been drawn, in terms of ideology. One side is hedging all bets that socialism is the way to go, and they will push that to the hilt, and never, ever, stop. If you don't agree with that, you'll support the other party. There is really no ambiguousness.

    .
    There are more than 2 parties.





    *Ambiguity not ambiguousness.
     
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