Where do rights come from?

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  • ChristianPatriot

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    Spinoff of a funny pictures thread conversation. Didn’t want to clog it up.

    Simple question: where do rights come from? What gives one man the authority to say that anything another man does is right/wrong or legal/illegal?

    I hear a lot that they come from man, but I believe that most people don’t actually live their lives that way.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    I guess the shallow, easy answer is "our founders"? Which each country could probably extrapolate to be "society" and what "society" agrees upon.

    Then you can get into "human rights" and "inalienable rights".... basic things that, morally, everyone should agree to, but don't necessarily.

    Hmm.
     

    2A_Tom

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    It is deeper than the founders, it is deeper than who they read, it is deeper than the magna carta, it is the Bible and the God of the bible.

    Remove the Bible, as the athiests desire and there will be no restraint at all.
     

    JettaKnight

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    The three fundamental human rights are Life, Liberty, and Property.
    That is, you have exclusive control over your body.
    Exclusive control over your actions.
    And exclusive control over the fruits of your labor.
    In Christianity, the Bible say a Christian has no guarantee of any of those - we are enslaved to God, and to a much lesser extent, Caesar.

    Paul even writes about slaves being the best slaves they can be.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    In Christianity, the Bible say a Christian has no guarantee of any of those - we are enslaved to God, and to a much lesser extent, Caesar.

    Paul even writes about slaves being the best slaves they can be.

    And how can you have a guarantee of those if it was decided before you that you don't?

    Say a country is being founded, and the people of that time all agree that the people do not have control over the fruits of their labor. For whatever reason.

    And everyone agrees on that, and every future person born is born into that, and doesn't question it because it's just how things are.

    You never had that right to begin with.

    There's probably going to be two different views in this thread... people that think of how it should be, and how it is.

    That, and the religious answers.
     

    T.Lex

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    Rights are defined by the agreement or acquiescence of those who submit to authority.

    Ultimately, might makes right.

    I can decide that I have a right to my neighbor's property because I am mightier than he. Then the state comes along and decides I don't have that right, and it is mightier than I.
     

    ChristianPatriot

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    Then you can get into "human rights" and "inalienable rights".... basic things that, morally, everyone should agree to, but don't necessarily.

    That’s where the rub is. If rights, and by extension morals, come from inside man’s conscience, then nobody has any authority to tell anybody anything. Cause screw your right and wrong, I’ll do what’s right by me. Even the obvious stuff, like murder being wrong. That’s nearly universal. Except genecides happens fairly regularly. Who’s to tell them they’re wrong? It obviously wasn’t wrong to them.
     

    churchmouse

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    Not according to our constiution. Certain rights are inalienable. You have them because you are a human being, outside of any degree of force.

    But in this rapid slide towards the edge it may be force that lets us keep those rights. It was force that removed the over bearing rule of the British from this land so we as a people could put them in place. This is by mandate. Nothing else.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Rights are defined by the agreement or acquiescence of those who submit to authority.

    Ultimately, might makes right.

    I can decide that I have a right to my neighbor's property because I am mightier than he. Then the state comes along and decides I don't have that right, and it is mightier than I.

    THIS!
     

    T.Lex

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    Not according to our constiution. Certain rights are inalienable. You have them because you are a human being, outside of any degree of force.

    What good is a right that one may "have" but not exercise?

    And I don't think our constitution says what you think it says. The Declaration of Independence (which has no legal authority, except as to our relationship with the British monarchy) says that there are certain inalienable rights.

    Seems to me, the constitution expresses a framework for rights and how to limit them. Right to vote? Sure, unless you're a felon. Right to be secure in your home? Sure, unless there's probable cause to suspect criminal activity. Right to own slaves? Sure, until there wasn't.
     

    zippy23

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    Its a simple, yet very complex question. If rights are granted by man, then its not truly a right, its just what some people said and a group of people follow. They can be changed by man at any time man wants. This is extremely dangerous because if a right to not be murdered is granted by man, that can be taken away very easily and suddenly its no longer a right. If you look at nature to grant rights, such as we are alive and we have the right not to be murdered by another person cuz we want to live, then that depends again on man, because man will define what nature is. Survival of the fittest obviously doesnt apply in our country today. If a right is granted by God, that right never changes. BUT, if man believes in rights granted by God, those men must set up a society to remove individuals that dont believe in rights and murder, steal, etc just cuz they want to. A right does not change. Therefore its somewhat logical that a right cant be granted by other people simply because they write it down on paper. And then there is the other side of the coin about losing rights.....man can certainly take away your rights.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    It is deeper than the founders, it is deeper than who they read, it is deeper than the magna carta, it is the Bible and the God of the bible.

    Remove the Bible, as the athiests desire and there will be no restraint at all.

    Where is this ever indicated in the Bible?
     

    BugI02

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    In the US formulation:

    Life - granted by God, man can end it but cannot create it

    Liberty - Free will, granted by God and part of our make up. We are not (and should not be) a slave to animal instinct, we have the ability to plan and work toward complex goals and in this are unlike any other part of creation

    Pursuit of happiness - Gift from God. "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
    No other part of creation has been granted dominion over us

    The Constitution overtly recognizes the existence of our rights from God, it does not presume to grant them. "We hold these truths to be self-evident ..." and the list is not claimed to be exhaustive " ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are ..."
     

    Kutnupe14

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    In the US formulation:

    Life - granted by God, man can end it but cannot create it

    Liberty - Free will, granted by God and part of our make up. We are not (and should not be) a slave to animal instinct, we have the ability to plan and work toward complex goals and in this are unlike any other part of creation

    Pursuit of happiness - Gift from God. "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
    No other part of creation has been granted dominion over us

    The Constitution overtly recognizes the existence of our rights from God, it does not presume to grant them. "We hold these truths to be self-evident ..." and the list is not claimed to be exhaustive " ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are ..."

    So only Judeo-Christian based societies understand what rights actually are?
     

    T.Lex

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    The Declaration of Independence: Full text

    Declaration of Independence said:
    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —

    Where was that thread about US Civics testing...
     
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