John Adams and our societal immorality

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  • 1nderbeard

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    [h=1]“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”[/h]
    With our (generally speaking) societal abandonment of morality, it seems like we've forgotten things. Things like the sanctity of life and confusion of the idea that man was made to rule the earth not to serve the earth.

    John Adams said that the constitution cannot govern an immoral people.

    Do you think that society will become so depraved that men can no longer handle the responsibility of firearms? I'm a supporter of the second amendment, and will always be, but I can clearly picture our country falling farther down the immoral hole we seem to be in now.

    Of course the argument is rightly made that the few remaining righteous will need firearms to protect themselves against the immoral government agents and immoral citizens. Just thinking out loud here and looking for comment.
     

    BugI02

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    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.” ― Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle

    “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

    I concede the possibility that we could have to endure a period of 'law of the gun' as is portrayed (and exaggerated) in many Hollywood westerns, and there is the danger we see also in real world countries in which the most lawless and violent form 'gangs' and dominate society; but I think the answer is more guns and less restrictions while each man takes some responsibility for his (and his loved ones) own security. We had lawlessness and gangs from early in our history and out of that emerged one of the best societies ever. It doesn't have to turn into Mad Max, which isn't to say it couldn't. But. IMO. if we submit to confiscation we're done.
     

    NKBJ

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    The depravity is already normalized. The only way the people of the US are going to retain their rights is to speedily return to Christ. So if you don't think that's going to happen, well, then there we are.
     

    1nderbeard

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    Are you or John Adams suggesting that to be moral you must be religious?

    I think John is suggesting the two are separate by using the conduction "and." I would argue that to be moral you must acknowledge that our sense of morality is imbued in us by a creator, and to that extent you must be religious.
     

    fullmetaljesus

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    I consider myself moral, yet I'm an atheist.
    I don't require a god to tell me taking a life needlessly is wrong.

    I don't want to take my queues from a god that finds it moral or just to waste entire cities, or dash a babies upon rocks, or genocide an entire planet.
     

    Jludo

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    I consider myself moral, yet I'm an atheist.
    I don't require a god to tell me taking a life needlessly is wrong.

    I don't want to take my queues from a god that finds it moral or just to waste entire cities, or dash a babies upon rocks, or genocide an entire planet.

    Might argue it's more admirable to be moral while not believing you'll be punished/rewarded for eternity.
     

    Jludo

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    Our constitution was made for moral and religious people? It wasn't even made by particularly religious or moral peoples.
     

    T.Lex

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    Have you read the constitution and/or declaration of independence?

    Without speaking for Jludo, it is awkward to defend the founders for the stain of slavery, which even at the time of the Revolution was becoming disfavored among civilized countries.

    In fact, England eliminated slavery before the Revolution....
     

    worddoer

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    A representative republic will only survive as long as it citizens realize they must govern themselves. Currently, that idea is eschewed and deemed offensive. No government will ever be able to create enough laws to govern all the actions of everyone. Trying to do so makes the assumption that individual behavior can be governed in all aspects of life...but it cannot.

    The only reason we were able to start a self governing nation is that most of the citizenry were self governing individuals at its founding. Even our founding fathers realized this fact. The condition of a republic is a reflection of the heart of its citizens.

    Roughly 250 years later the majority of our citizenry have changed and are no longer self governing, but rather they ask the government to rule over them. I don't believe there is any one thing that has caused this. There are many ingredients that have created this witches brew of self enslavement.

    It is my personal belief that most of the issues we are facing in our country right now is rooted in the denial of this fundamental fact. Sadly, I believe that we have gone down the road of self enslavement so far, we can no longer turn back. Now we are simply arguing over the degree of self enslavement we are willing to tolerate.

    "A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader". Samuel Adams

    "To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical [imaginary] idea." James Madison

    "Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics" John Adams

    "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom." Benjamin Franklin

    "Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue." Samuel Adams

    "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
     

    Nazgul

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    All of the moral values we are talking about require the acknowledgement of the value of each human life. The case can be made we have devalued life in general in our society. The preponderance of abortion, willingness to let the gov't take care of our children/elders/handicapped, acceptance of handouts when a person is fully capable of working.

    All this devalues us and our accomplishments. It is acceptable to think of one's self first instead of others.

    Don
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    All of the moral values we are talking about require the acknowledgement of the value of each human life. The case can be made we have devalued life in general in our society. The preponderance of abortion, willingness to let the gov't take care of our children/elders/handicapped, acceptance of handouts when a person is fully capable of working.

    All this devalues us and our accomplishments. It is acceptable to think of one's self first instead of others.

    Don

    You left out killing another human being over a pair of sneakers or a video game system, or any number of trivial things.
     
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