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  1. #1
    Plinker

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    John Adams and our societal immorality

    “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

    With our (generally speaking) societal abandonment of morality, it seems like we've forgotten things. Things like the sanctity of life and confusion of the idea that man was made to rule the earth not to serve the earth.

    John Adams said that the constitution cannot govern an immoral people.

    Do you think that society will become so depraved that men can no longer handle the responsibility of firearms? I'm a supporter of the second amendment, and will always be, but I can clearly picture our country falling farther down the immoral hole we seem to be in now.

    Of course the argument is rightly made that the few remaining righteous will need firearms to protect themselves against the immoral government agents and immoral citizens. Just thinking out loud here and looking for comment.

  2. #2
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    If history teaches anything, it is that empires fall.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  3. #3
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.” ― Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle

    “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” ― Robert A. Heinlein

    I concede the possibility that we could have to endure a period of 'law of the gun' as is portrayed (and exaggerated) in many Hollywood westerns, and there is the danger we see also in real world countries in which the most lawless and violent form 'gangs' and dominate society; but I think the answer is more guns and less restrictions while each man takes some responsibility for his (and his loved ones) own security. We had lawlessness and gangs from early in our history and out of that emerged one of the best societies ever. It doesn't have to turn into Mad Max, which isn't to say it couldn't. But. IMO. if we submit to confiscation we're done.
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  4. #4
    Expert NKBJ's Avatar

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    The depravity is already normalized. The only way the people of the US are going to retain their rights is to speedily return to Christ. So if you don't think that's going to happen, well, then there we are.

  5. #5
    Expert fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    Are you or John Adams suggesting that to be moral you must be religious?
    WTS/WTT 9mm and 308 win reload dies.

  6. #6
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Are you or John Adams suggesting that to be moral you must be religious?
    I think John is suggesting the two are separate by using the conduction "and." I would argue that to be moral you must acknowledge that our sense of morality is imbued in us by a creator, and to that extent you must be religious.

  7. #7
    Expert fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    I consider myself moral, yet I'm an atheist.
    I don't require a god to tell me taking a life needlessly is wrong.

    I don't want to take my queues from a god that finds it moral or just to waste entire cities, or dash a babies upon rocks, or genocide an entire planet.
    WTS/WTT 9mm and 308 win reload dies.

  8. #8
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    I consider myself moral, yet I'm an atheist.
    I don't require a god to tell me taking a life needlessly is wrong.

    I don't want to take my queues from a god that finds it moral or just to waste entire cities, or dash a babies upon rocks, or genocide an entire planet.
    Might argue it's more admirable to be moral while not believing you'll be punished/rewarded for eternity.

  9. #9
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Our constitution was made for moral and religious people? It wasn't even made by particularly religious or moral peoples.

  10. #10
    Grandmaster chipbennett's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jludo View Post
    Our constitution was made for moral and religious people? It wasn't even made by particularly religious or moral peoples.

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