Title IX vs Trans rights; who wins?

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  • Cameramonkey

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    HoughMade

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    ...Good for them for being themselves...

    That's the point. They are not "being themselves". While how they act in their private lives should not be interfered with by the government assuming no laws are broken (seems like a safe assumption for the most part), no official anything should be made to join in this fantasy, nor should any other private entity or any person be forced to engage in this fantasy.

    When the liberals advocated "anything goes", they had no idea how far it would go, and we are seeing the chickens come home to roost. In the mean time, women who have worked extremely hard and played by the rules are being trodden upon by narcissistic fools.
     

    churchmouse

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    That's the point. They are not "being themselves". While how they act in their private lives should not be interfered with by the government assuming no laws are broken (seems like a safe assumption for the most part), no official anything should be made to join in this fantasy, nor should any other private entity or any person be forced to engage in this fantasy.

    When the liberals advocated "anything goes", they had no idea how far it would go, and we are seeing the chickens come home to roost. In the mean time, women who have worked extremely hard and played by the rules are being trodden upon by narcissistic fools.

    That covers this completely.
     

    jamil

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    That's the point. They are not "being themselves". While how they act in their private lives should not be interfered with by the government assuming no laws are broken (seems like a safe assumption for the most part), no official anything should be made to join in this fantasy, nor should any other private entity or any person be forced to engage in this fantasy.

    When the liberals advocated "anything goes", they had no idea how far it would go, and we are seeing the chickens come home to roost. In the mean time, women who have worked extremely hard and played by the rules are being trodden upon by narcissistic fools.

    Peterson is kinda right about order vs chaos. We may not have civil order exactly right in the West. Not everything can be fair. Since post modernism kinda removes the traditional order and replaces it with "everything is a social construct" or as you call it, "anything goes", it's essentially chaos. It turns the rules of society upside down and we're finding that only works for a small minority of people. The rules of society that makes order out of chaos kinda formed to solve these kinds of problems, and has determined that you can't make it fair for everyone.

    The best we can get is to make it fairest for the most people. So we just have to say, I'm sorry that you have this disorder. But biological males aren't physical equals to biological females. You can't compete directly with them or it's unfair to them. You can't expect the vast majority of people to defer to your special conditions. And there's another issue that goes along with that. There are some females transitioning to males that still compete with other females. But because they're transitioning, they get to take testosterone, which is a performance enhancing drug that is banned for everyone else.

    So the rules to prevent chaos: 1) Biological males transitioning to females can't compete against females. Ever. Even after transitioning, they still have many of the physical advantages of males that make their participation unfair to biological women. Under no circumstances can anyone compete while taking testosterone or other performance enhancing drugs. No exceptions. That's not transphobic. It's not fair to everyone. But it's the fairest we can get.

    Maybe we need tranny leagues.
     

    Doug

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    Just determine the average hormone levels of males and females. An athlete who maintains the appropriate hormone levels for a year (or however long the medical community says is necessary to provide equality) can compete as that gender. This will also address any unusual endocrine conditions which might result in skewed hormone levels among apparently normal males and females.
     

    ChristianPatriot

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    Just determine the average hormone levels of males and females. An athlete who maintains the appropriate hormone levels for a year (or however long the medical community says is necessary to provide equality) can compete as that gender. This will also address any unusual endocrine conditions which might result in skewed hormone levels among apparently normal males and females.

    That still doesn’t address the physical advantages men have. A man could be a competitive body builder for 10 years and then take hormones for however long to be qualified for a female event and he would still have a massive advantage over his female competitors. The biological differences aren’t just hormonal.
     

    jamil

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    I think it would be fine if any gender wants to compete with males. If they can meet the challenge.

    There are some sports where physique don't matter all that much. Pool/billiards for example. There are separate leagues for women and men. But there wouldn't need to be. It's there because that's what people want. Women can compete at the same level as men though. I think it was a 10 ball tournament I saw where some Chinese woman played against Efren Reyes and damn she had a really powerful break. She lost of course, because it's Efren Reyes. But top women say they'd usually prefer to compete in the women's leagues because there are fewer high level players in the women's league than in the men's and so they have a better shot at the big money. Obviously it's not all about the male patriarchy trying to hold women down.
     

    jamil

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    I wonder what a remake of "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" would be. Well. It doesn't require much imagination. Let's say the title would definitely be changed, and few if any protagonists would be male.
     

    Twangbanger

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    But nobody is going to solve the essential conflict of Title 9 vs. Trans-ism the way a bunch of old males on a gun website think it logically should be solved.

    They're going to solve it the way Civil Rights in America always solves things: statistical management of outcomes.

    If male domination of womens' scholarship sports becomes a "problem," they'll change the definitional details until parity is restored. They will make it so that to qualify for funding, schools are required to consider more than athletic prowess in awarding the scholarships. . There may be "some" Trans athletes get through. But they will not dominate. Liberals will change definitions to get the outcome they want. Just like always. You are forgetting they are bound by no fixed logical principles. Only the search for outcomes.

    Sure, this is a delicious contradiction, one which would seem to pit two liberal interests against each other, and putting one of them on-course for a schadenfreude-laden smackdown. "Oh boy, the libs have really got themselves in an unresolvable pickle...let's get some popcorn and watch THIS play out." But conservatives forget the other side doesn't play by the same rules. They always find enough room in the tent for everybody, because they are not required to obey logic. There may be a couple butt hurt lawsuits filed by people who aren't woke enough. But in the end, everybody gets in line behind the orthodoxy.

    We're the ones who find analytical solutions to problems using analog reasoning in accordance with fixed principles. They just fiddle with statistics until it returns the answer they want.
     
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    DoggyDaddy

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    But nobody is going to solve the essential conflict of Title 9 vs. Trans-ism the way a bunch of old males on a gun website think it logically should be solved.

    They're going to solve it the way Civil Rights in America always solves things: statistical management of outcomes.

    If male domination of womens' scholarship sports becomes a "problem," they'll change the definitional details until parity is restored. They will make it so that to qualify for funding, schools are required to consider more than athletic prowess in awarding the scholarships. . There may be "some" Trans athletes get through. But they will not dominate. Liberals will change definitions to get the outcome they want. Just like always. You are forgetting they are bound by no fixed logical principles. Only the search for outcomes.

    Sure, this is a delicious contradiction, one which would seem to pit two liberal interests against each other, and putting one of them on-course for a schadenfreude-laden smackdown. "Oh boy, the libs have really got themselves in an unresolvable pickle...let's get some popcorn and watch THIS play out." But conservatives forget the other side doesn't play by the same rules. They always find enough room in the tent for everybody, because they are not required to obey logic. There may be a couple butt hurt lawsuits filed by people who aren't woke enough. But in the end, everybody gets in line behind the orthodoxy.

    We're the ones who find analytical solutions to problems using analog reasoning in accordance with fixed principles. They just fiddle with statistics until it returns the answer they want.

    Reminds me of a joke that my Accounting professor told in class many years ago...

    A firm was holding interviews for a new accountant. There was only one question in the interview. "What is 1+1?" Of course, most of the applicants answered "2" as would be expected. One of them however, answered, "Whatever you want it to be." He got the job.
     

    edporch

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    Women's/Girl's athletics should never be forced to allow Men/Boy's to compete against them.

    Simply looking at the results so far of allowing this, shows males have an unfair advantage.

    A male with mental issues who has the delusion he's really a "female" will always be a male, no matter how much he mutilates his body, or changes his name, clothes, or even takes drugs to supposedly make him "female", etc.

    It's wrong to FORCE Women's/Girl's athletics to participate in the fantasies of mentally ill delusional males.

    If this continues, athletics will eventually evolve to Men's/Boy's and Open Class athletics, with Women's/Girls athletics shoved aside.
     

    spencer rifle

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    But nobody is going to solve the essential conflict of Title 9 vs. Trans-ism the way a bunch of old males on a gun website think it logically should be solved.

    They're going to solve it the way Civil Rights in America always solves things: statistical management of outcomes.

    If male domination of womens' scholarship sports becomes a "problem," they'll change the definitional details until parity is restored. They will make it so that to qualify for funding, schools are required to consider more than athletic prowess in awarding the scholarships. . There may be "some" Trans athletes get through. But they will not dominate. Liberals will change definitions to get the outcome they want. Just like always. You are forgetting they are bound by no fixed logical principles. Only the search for outcomes.

    Sure, this is a delicious contradiction, one which would seem to pit two liberal interests against each other, and putting one of them on-course for a schadenfreude-laden smackdown. "Oh boy, the libs have really got themselves in an unresolvable pickle...let's get some popcorn and watch THIS play out." But conservatives forget the other side doesn't play by the same rules. They always find enough room in the tent for everybody, because they are not required to obey logic. There may be a couple butt hurt lawsuits filed by people who aren't woke enough. But in the end, everybody gets in line behind the orthodoxy.

    We're the ones who find analytical solutions to problems using analog reasoning in accordance with fixed principles. They just fiddle with statistics until it returns the answer they want.
    This reminds me of two quotes:
    "If at first you don't succeed, redefine success."
    "Torture the data long enough and it will confess to anything."
     

    Tombs

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    The trans problem will solve its self, just let them have everything they want. Grit and bear it for now.

    After a few months, everyone will be demanding it's overturned and made a forgotten part of our history as pretty much all causes women fought for are deconstructed and destroyed.
    The ideology literally can not co-exist with feminism, so, like I said, let them fight it out. It's just a social trend anyway.

    The concerning collateral damage in this situation, that I'm unsure how to save, are the poor kids who's parents are utterly brainwashed and insane and put them through sex reassignment surgery. Surely we can find a way to criminalize this practice to avoid leaving children as collateral damage.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    The trans problem will solve its self, just let them have everything they want. Grit and bear it for now.

    After a few months, everyone will be demanding it's overturned and made a forgotten part of our history as pretty much all causes women fought for are deconstructed and destroyed.
    The ideology literally can not co-exist with feminism, so, like I said, let them fight it out. It's just a social trend anyway.

    The concerning collateral damage in this situation, that I'm unsure how to save, are the poor kids who's parents are utterly brainwashed and insane and put them through sex reassignment surgery. Surely we can find a way to criminalize this practice to avoid leaving children as collateral damage.

    If I'm not mistaken, they've been lowering the age of consent without parental permission (by state) for abortions.

    They glorify what amounts to child pornography "live" as in the most recent case where the parents let their CHILD dress in drag and perform in a strip club. Do you expect these same people to agree to anything less than "age 0" in order to let the parents decide this?
     
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    Tombs

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    If I'm not mistaken, they've been lowering the age of consent without parental permission (by state) for abortions.

    They glorify what amounts to child pornography "live" as in the most recent case where the parents let their CHILD dress in drag and perform in a strip club. Do you expect these same people to agree to anything less than "age 0" in order to let the parents decide this?

    That's the hard part. I know what I'd do about it to save those poor kids from psychopaths, but that isn't politically correct, so what ever.
     

    ATOMonkey

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    We've gotten to the place where NOT doing gender re-assignment surgery on an 11 year old is abuse.

    I think the corner has been turned. I don't know how you walk that one back.
     
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