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  1. #31
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomike View Post
    If you still have romantic notions about pure democracy you need to review the sheep and wolves story.

    The framers actually built the system to not do something by creating circuit breakers all throughput. True democracy would have already had a vote banning all guns 50.02% to 49.08%...
    Clearly we're talking past one another. Our government is in part democratic, I'm questioning if that part could be put up to a vote instead of using representatives.
    None of that says we scrap the republic part of the system or abolish the 2a.

  2. #32
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCgrease08 View Post
    Hell no. Our system was specifically designed as a democratic republic to prevent legislation passed by popular vote.

    It's impossible to protect the rights of the individual when the collective is so eager to vote those rights away based on popular opinion in the moment. How fast do you think we'd lose our gun rights if they were put to a popular vote the day after a mass shooting?

    Direct voting on legislation is the antithesis of what our nation was founded on.
    So your contention is that our level headed representatives are the only thing protecting our gun rights? I'm not advocating we abolish the bill of rights or leave everything up to the 51%

    I honestly dont even have a proposal, I'm Just thinking out loud for a solution for the problem pointed out above. That you might disagree with your representative on 99% of the issues but they will vote against an AWB so you have to vote for them.

  3. #33
    Grandmaster MCgrease08's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jludo View Post
    Clearly we're talking past one another. Our government is in part democratic, I'm questioning if that part could be put up to a vote instead of using representatives.
    None of that says we scrap the republic part of the system or abolish the 2a.
    It does suggest scrapping the Republic part of the system, seeing as that's the part that requires elected representation.
    Well the sheriff couldn't catch me now, but his little girl? Sure wish she would.

  4. #34
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCgrease08 View Post
    It does suggest scrapping the Republic part of the system, seeing as that's the part that requires elected representation.
    I should've emphasized the constitutional republic part.
    Instead of congressman voting on legislation it falls to the people to vote directly on it. The resulting legislation would still be subject to the constitution, the other branches etc.

  5. #35
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jludo View Post
    To the proportion that our government is democratic to begin with I'd wonder if voting directly on issues would be better than voting on representatives.
    No.
    I have spoken.

  6. #36
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    No.
    Any solution to the problem of wanting to keep guns but not agreeing with anything else Republicans do?

  7. #37
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Is that a question or a statement? Kinda missing some punctuation so Iím not sure.
    I have spoken.

  8. #38
    Master Jludo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Is that a question or a statement? Kinda missing some punctuation so Iím not sure.
    Obviously it's not a solution for you so I'm asking for one.

  9. #39
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jludo View Post
    Any solution to the problem of wanting to keep guns but not agreeing with anything else Republicans do?
    Move to Vermont?
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  10. #40
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jludo View Post
    So your contention is that our level headed representatives are the only thing protecting our gun rights? I'm not advocating we abolish the bill of rights or leave everything up to the 51%

    I honestly dont even have a proposal, I'm Just thinking out loud for a solution for the problem pointed out above. That you might disagree with your representative on 99% of the issues but they will vote against an AWB so you have to vote for them.
    The solution is a case that provokes an unequivical ruling by SCOTUS that "... shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Then you wouldn't have to worry about an AWB and could vote against the guy you are in such disagreement with

    I think avoiding taking a case to that level is playing not to lose and seldom works out well

    Edit: But given what a squish Roberts is, I'd rather that case was pled after Ginsberg is taking a dirt nap

    Last edited by BugI02; 08-27-2019 at 08:44.
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

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