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  1. #21
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    The talk of mental institutions kinda troubles me as a solution to whatever mental health issues might be relating to mass shootings. There’s only one or two instances where the shooter might have been institutionalized. That’s the Aurora theater shooting. I think that guy was mentally ill. Maybe there was another l, as well.

    But most of these people just plain weren’t raised right. These narcissistic “incels” are losers because their parents and society are teaching them to be losers. Parents coddle successively more each generation and produce teens who can’t function. No confidence because they’re told they’re special, rather than helping them persevere through some hardships, as they able to handle them. Studies are showing that boys are falling behind in school while girls are generally thriving. And then we have the rabid feminist culture telling boys they need to be more like girls. Too many kids are growing up nihilistic with no purpose.

    The ones who fall through all the cracks end up losers. No one wants to be a loser, so might as well go out winning something.

    Institutionalization isn’t going to fix that. How the hell do you even know which ones need institutionalizing? Yes, I think it’s fine to talk about a solution to the severe and debilitating mental health problems. Maybe creating institutions to house and care for these people could help. But it’s not going to solve the reason we’re even talking about it.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if you’re full of ****?

  2. #22
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    The talk of mental institutions kinda troubles me as a solution to whatever mental health issues might be relating to mass shootings. There’s only one or two instances where the shooter might have been institutionalized. That’s the Aurora theater shooting. I think that guy was mentally ill. Maybe there was another l, as well.

    But most of these people just plain weren’t raised right. These narcissistic “incels” are losers because their parents and society are teaching them to be losers. Parents coddle successively more each generation and produce teens who can’t function. No confidence because they’re told they’re special, rather than helping them persevere through some hardships, as they able to handle them. Studies are showing that boys are falling behind in school while girls are generally thriving. And then we have the rabid feminist culture telling boys they need to be more like girls. Too many kids are growing up nihilistic with no purpose.

    The ones who fall through all the cracks end up losers. No one wants to be a loser, so might as well go out winning something.

    Institutionalization isn’t going to fix that. How the hell do you even know which ones need institutionalizing? Yes, I think it’s fine to talk about a solution to the severe and debilitating mental health problems. Maybe creating institutions to house and care for these people could help. But it’s not going to solve the reason we’re even talking about it.
    Gabby Giffords. The Florida shooter had a serious trail of paper stating he was off between the ears. There are others.

    The nut job kid that stole moms guns killed her and shot up the school. My mind is a blank tonight. All were psycho.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  3. #23
    Master Spear Dane's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    Gabby Giffords. The Florida shooter had a serious trail of paper stating he was off between the ears. There are others.

    The nut job kid that stole moms guns killed her and shot up the school. My mind is a blank tonight. All were psycho.
    Sandy Hook. That little bastard LOOKED nutty as hell too.
    Justin B. - "Make them watch Wonder Woman. They'll molon labe after that!"

  4. #24
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Read Clayton E Cramer’s book on deinstitutionalization:

    https://www.amazon.com/My-Brother-Ro...gateway&sr=8-1

    America started a grand experiment in the 1960s: deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill. The consequences were very destructive: homelessness; a degradation of urban life; increases in violent crime rates; increasing death rates for the mentally ill. My Brother Ron tells the story of deinstitutionalization from two points of view: what happened to the author's older brother, part of the first generation of those who became mentally ill after deinstitutionalization, and a detailed history of how and why America went down this path. My Brother Ron examines the multiple strands that came together to create the perfect storm that was deinstitutionalization: a well-meaning concern about the poor conditions of many state mental hospitals; a giddy optimism by the psychiatric profession in the ability of new drugs to cure the mentally ill; a rigid ideological approach to due process that ignored that the beneficiaries would end up starving to death or dying of exposure.


    Mr. Cramer’s second amendment work has been cited in the Heller and McDonald Scotus decisions, as well as other decisions. He knows how to do research and he knows his stuff.

    Fun fact: there are people who complain that we are incarcerating a higher percentage of our population than ever before. But they cite only prison statistics to support us. If you include the number of people Involuntarily kept in mental institutions, it turns out the rate of incarceration in recent decades is about the same as it was in the early 1900s. The huge implications of this is that we have simply moved the crazies from the mental hospitals to prison.

  5. #25
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear Dane View Post
    Sandy Hook. That little bastard LOOKED nutty as hell too.
    Yup. He was a serious nut job.
    The whack job that shot Giffords had a paper trail a mile long. Kicked out of college not to be allowed back on the campus. Sheriff informed. Nothing done. Nut jobs Mom worked for the sheriff. The kid in Florida same thing. They knew he was a danger ranger.

    The system is not working. Implementing a more complicated system is not the answer.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  6. #26
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Mr. Cramer points out that the community mental health centers that the government funded in place of the mental hospitals do not treat the kind of people who or patients in the mental hospital. Community mental health centers deal with people who Have less severe issues and who will come in for treatment at least most of the time And will take their medicine. It requires some degree of voluntary cooperation by the patient. This is exactly not the kind of person that the mental institutions of yore were set up to help.

    People who are paranoid, having violent thoughts, and are most likely self treating with “recreational“ drugs and alcohol instead of prescription medications Need mandatory long-term supervision to keep them from Going off the cliff and maybe taking a bunch of people with them. But this is very difficult to arrange both because there are many fewer beds now for this, and the legal hurdles have become very high. So they cycle in and out of jail and through 72 hour holds Until they do something severe enough to land them in prison.

    And no I don’t believe there are only one or two of the mass shooters of recent years who were showing enough bad tendencies to be committed. A number of them gave clear indications that they needed some mandatory supervision, But the deinstitutionalization scheme is so embedded in the paradigms of psychological treatment and law that People don’t want to pursue it, and A fair amount of legal jeopardy can accrue to a decision to commit. Psychiatrists can be sued and have judgments placed against them for committing a Person that the jury decides was wrongly committed. They don’t get sued for letting people go, even when people subsequently go do harm.

  7. #27
    Sharpshooter KMaC's Avatar

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    Don't forget the Boulder, CO movie theater shooter. He was actually under the care of a psychiatrist.

  8. #28
    Expert Magneto's Avatar

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    My church occasionally goes to a local homeless shelter to serve meals. Every time we go there is an issue with someone that has some mental issue. Never the same person twice. They have never been violent or seemed like they would get violent but you have to be careful just in case. It really opens your eyes to who is out there now that 40 years ago probably wouldn't have been.
    We ascend to our destiny...to the Elysian fields

  9. #29
    Master Brad69's Avatar

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    I would go out on limb and say IMO the Dayton shooter would have been institutionalized as late as the early 80’s.

    Once the school would have found about the rape and hit lists he would have been taking a trip.

    BTW
    https://www.whio.com/news/crime--law...bCUg9YMjQKGzM/
    U.S. Army retired

  10. #30
    Expert Nazgul's Avatar

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    I know from having someone close that really needed some institutional help, it is not available in Indiana.

    What do we do??

    Don


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