Join INGunOwners For Free
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 89
  1. #31
    Grandmaster DeadeyeChrista'sdad's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    We get on to our legislature to stop trying to save a buck at the expense of the lives of the most vulnerable people among us. We hold their feet to the fire and make it an issue until they would rather juggle running chainsaws than not vote for better mental health care.
    I hear They call him Flipper. Yes... yes, I'm serious.

  2. #32
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Take a tour of the alleys and back streets down town. Out east there is or was a well established hobo village and yes there are some bat crazy SOB's among them.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

    Forum Rules

    Classified Rules

    FAQ

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/handgu...e-posting.html

  3. #33
    Marksman HoosierLife's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    My church occasionally goes to a local homeless shelter to serve meals. Every time we go there is an issue with someone that has some mental issue. Never the same person twice. They have never been violent or seemed like they would get violent but you have to be careful just in case. It really opens your eyes to who is out there now that 40 years ago probably wouldn't have been.
    Our church picks these folks up every week and brings them to church. Some weeks 3-4 or some weeks 7-10. We watch them like hawks.

  4. #34
    Master

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazgul View Post
    I know from having someone close that really needed some institutional help, it is not available in Indiana.

    What do we do??
    Start by educating yourself on deinstitutionalization, how it happened and why. Alamo has some excellent posts above to get you started. It isn't a simple subject. And there is no simple solution. The older mental institutions had real value in treating patients and protecting both the patients and the public, but were also significant and visible costs that were easy to campaign against (both by politicians and special interest groups). There were real abuses and problems, but in my view, when various groups lobbied to switch to community outreach treatment programs (which never lived up to their claims as a more humane/cheaper solution), they ended up pushing out all of that disfunction out to affect the general public in many ways visible and invisible.

    • Many of the homeless would have formerly been in these institutions
    • A disproportionate chunk of our crime comes from this group. This includes a percentage of these mass murder events.
    • As Alamo noted, a large number of those who can't really take care of themselves due to mental issues end up in prisons. Prisons aren't really designed for proper treatment and care of mental cases and are very expensive housing facilities. Mixing the violent with the simply disfunctional isn't a more humane way to treat these people than earlier institutionalization.

    Politicians, the press, the drug industry, the psychiatric profession and "do gooders" all share responsibility for destroying a system that had real benefits rather than reforming it when problems were discovered and sensationalized. Much like many "do gooders" that are working to radically remake our nation today, they didn't appreciate the downsides to what they proposed and ended up seriously harming both the intended recipients and the rest of society. It is easy to point to forced institutionalization as "bad", particularly when you can point to clear abuses. It is harder, but necessary, to make the argument that there really are people who would be better off in institutions, even if they don't want to be there, that the rest of society benefits as well, and that simply releasing them was not more humane.

    Like anyone, I wish that such a solution wasn't necessary at all. Some people can legitimately be treated on an outpatient basis and function reasonably in society. Great- let them out and help them. But eliminating the institutions was a bad choice. Once you understand this history and its effects, you will be in a much better position to push for change.
    Last edited by Phase2; 08-18-2019 at 08:07.
    Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.- Richard Feynman

  5. #35
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    When I look at those videos and photos of abuses in the "old" institutions, I really think we're talking about two different problems. The most egregious horrors of the old system seemed to involve people at a very low functional level who cannot even feed themselves. If you loaded an assault rifle and handed it to those people, they probably would not be capable of carrying out an attack.

    Today's mass-shooters are higher-functioning individuals with the ability to plan ahead, but yet with incredible degrees of emotional disturbance.

    Antidepressants and antianxiety medications can allow people like these to "fake" their way to adulthood with a spotless criminal background.

    Clearly these individuals cannot simply be allowed to circulate unsupervised in the general population. But how do you get it done? The parents are in complete denial.

    I'm really starting to think the solution has to be good old-fashioned law enforcement. The Dayton shooter reportedly had mental health counseling receipts in his pocket the moment he was killed. It's evident the counselors in that scenario are working for the shooter; not for society. They see him as a patient and get paid on his insurance to treat him and do what's best for _him_. What about the interests of society?

    Regardless what resources are and aren't available for them to get institutional treatment, it's become clear their parents are never going to put them there until acted upon by some strong, unopposable outside force. It's starting to look like that outside force is going to have to be law enforcement, in the form of a conviction record that simply can't be ignored.
    We have to re-think our policy of not wanting to prosecute children under any circumstances.
    Last edited by Twangbanger; 08-18-2019 at 15:18.

  6. #36
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Spear Dane View Post
    Sandy Hook. That little bastard LOOKED nutty as hell too.
    I think that monster was created by his doting mom. He may have also had some form of autism. Not sure. But given the right parents he could have been just fine on his own.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if you’re full of ****?

  7. #37
    Master Twangbanger's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    I think that monster was created by his doting mom. He may have also had some form of autism. Not sure. But given the right parents he could have been just fine on his own.
    The parents were obviously not equipped to deal. But just curious: how do you know parenting alone, by itself, would have made Adam Lanza able to handle life on his own? Not talking about "other kids like him that you've seen." We're talking about Adam Lanza. I don't think you know what you say you know.

  8. #38
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post
    Yup. He was a serious nut job.
    The whack job that shot Giffords had a paper trail a mile long. Kicked out of college not to be allowed back on the campus. Sheriff informed. Nothing done. Nut jobs Mom worked for the sheriff. The kid in Florida same thing. They knew he was a danger ranger.

    The system is not working. Implementing a more complicated system is not the answer.
    Yeah, the Gabby Giffords shooter comes to mind as well. But I think we're talking about two kinds of nuts here. Okay, poor choice of words, but you know what I mean. There's the mentally ill kind, schizophrenia (Aurora theater shooter), or bipolar, or some other kind of serious mental illness. And then there is just plain ****ed up, by parents, drug abuse, circumstances, whatever. Most of the shooters we're seeing now I think fall into the latter category. The "incel" type, for example. They're losers. And they don't know how not to be losers. And they blame the world for it. Reinstating institutionalization isn't gonna fix the latter.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if you’re full of ****?

  9. #39
    I still care....Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Yeah, the Gabby Giffords shooter comes to mind as well. But I think we're talking about two kinds of nuts here. Okay, poor choice of words, but you know what I mean. There's the mentally ill kind, schizophrenia (Aurora theater shooter), or bipolar, or some other kind of serious mental illness. And then there is just plain ****ed up, by parents, drug abuse, circumstances, whatever. Most of the shooters we're seeing now I think fall into the latter category. The "incel" type, for example. They're losers. And they don't know how not to be losers. And they blame the world for it. Reinstating institutionalization isn't gonna fix the latter.
    Maybe not but we have to catch and keep the latter. Not sure how what where or how but seriously. They are growing in numbers.


    Edit.....I said "How" 2ice. That is the real issue.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

    Forum Rules

    Classified Rules

    FAQ

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/handgu...e-posting.html

  10. #40
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo View Post
    Mr. Cramer points out that the community mental health centers that the government funded in place of the mental hospitals do not treat the kind of people who or patients in the mental hospital. Community mental health centers deal with people who Have less severe issues and who will come in for treatment at least most of the time And will take their medicine. It requires some degree of voluntary cooperation by the patient. This is exactly not the kind of person that the mental institutions of yore were set up to help.

    People who are paranoid, having violent thoughts, and are most likely self treating with “recreational“ drugs and alcohol instead of prescription medications Need mandatory long-term supervision to keep them from Going off the cliff and maybe taking a bunch of people with them. But this is very difficult to arrange both because there are many fewer beds now for this, and the legal hurdles have become very high. So they cycle in and out of jail and through 72 hour holds Until they do something severe enough to land them in prison.

    And no I don’t believe there are only one or two of the mass shooters of recent years who were showing enough bad tendencies to be committed. A number of them gave clear indications that they needed some mandatory supervision, But the deinstitutionalization scheme is so embedded in the paradigms of psychological treatment and law that People don’t want to pursue it, and A fair amount of legal jeopardy can accrue to a decision to commit. Psychiatrists can be sued and have judgments placed against them for committing a Person that the jury decides was wrongly committed. They don’t get sued for letting people go, even when people subsequently go do harm.
    I think the Dayton shooter fit more of what you're talking about. He seemed to be clearly a problem. Probably the Parkland shooter as well. The El Paso guy wasn't. No one had a clue. He was on no one's radar. Yoga shooter, the Toronto dude who used a vehicle, Eliot Roger in California, and a host of many others. You can bring back institutionalization, and clearly some people need that. But that's not going to stop mass shootings.

    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if you’re full of ****?

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Button Dodge