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  1. #21
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    That depends on which way DC goes, because it can get worse. And IMO it has gotten worse. American global prestige, power projection, and leadership is a mere shadow of what it was.
    Then why are the Iranians worried enough about a US attack to threaten all out war on the rest of the ME? Power projection should keep our enemies up at night, not make neo-cons feel all warm and fuzzy
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  2. #22
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    WTF? ďThis guy tells it like it is and swings back,Ē therefore nothing else matters. I guess he literally could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and not lose any voters. Because, you know, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Because Jesus said absolutely nothing else after that. There are apparently two forms of TDS.

    yin/yang dude, it's literally everywhere

    Or Newton's third if you're hopelessly westernized - same thing
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  3. #23
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by phylodog View Post
    I see a near 100% about face as far as power projection and prestige are concerned. We currently have a POTUS who has demonstrated that we arenít bowing down to those who threaten this country and we certainly arenít sending billions of dollars to those countries to keep them from posturing against us. Thereís a reason US Forces donít show their palm when they salute, I appreciate the fact that Trump understands that.

    As as far as leadership is concerned, disagreeing with the direction he may be trying to take things doesnít make him any less a leader than if you agreed with him. Right thing, right time for the right reasons. While heís not consistent in hitting all three Iíll certainly take two out of three any day over zero.

    I donít think heís the best weíve had but I know heís not the worst. I donít particularly care what the rest of the world thinks of us but I certainly believe we are enjoying a renewed level of respect which had been lost during the previous administration.
    I am now, inclined to agree. Our definitions are different. You say that we aren't bowing to those that threaten this country. And yet, Iran, North Korea, and Russia have enjoyed an resurgence in power. Iran has (since the abandonment of the Iran Deal) destroyed US assets, and openly (not by proxy) terrorizes nations. North Korea, has become legitimized, test missiles at will - while we reward them with the suspension of military exercises and love letters. Russia, has been openly harassing our military in both the air and the high seas - we reward them with telling the world that even though our intelligence agencies say otherwise we "see no reason why it would be Russia" meddling in our election. But that isn't quite power projection. Power projection is the ability and willingness of a state to project military might over a distance, and as such, give those states within that distance pause when considering military action. This current president has the tools, but seems to lack the willingness to project might, and as such, our enemies are taking advantage of such.

    With prestige, our definitions can differ, because prestige is in the eye of the beholder. I'll clarify, amongst our traditional FIRST world allies our global prestige has suffered (i.e. England, France, Germany). Prestige being respect and admiration, based on who you are and what you do. Now, amongst are traditional enemies (Russia, North Korea) I guess you can say that our prestige has increased, but it may be closer to an appreciation naivety than respect.

    You should care what the rest of the world thinks of us, because that determines how they treat us. This current president hasn't shown much of a backbone, and shows. If it keeps trending the way that it is, eventually some diplomat is going to be so bold that he allows his bodyguards to beat up American citizens because he was offended, without so much as peep from our president. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
    I Have the Worst Crew Ever

  4. #24
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    I agree, he's a fighter, but it appears that he fights more for self than country, if the two cross paths, so much the better. And so far as the changes, I'd say that those changes to the GOP aren't for the better.
    Take a look at it from the other side. They view it as an onslaught against everything they desire. Their level of obsession with him is an indication that his fight is highly effective. They are worried. They are scared. They see a real threat to their agenda like none who have come before him. He was so bold to actually tell them that he was rolling them back right there in his slogan.

    Some of us may view him as a hot mess, but trust me, the other side sees it as a very coordinated and deliberate attack, even though they try to paint hiim as mentally ill, racist, or you fill in the blank. I see and hear every day the fear and obsession my friends on the left see in this guy. They've never been so battered and bruised for so long, so consistently. And what really scares them? Their attacks have done nothing to him. Absolutely zero. How many times have they thought they had the smoking gun, only for it to misfire. Over and over.

    He delivered one of the most painful blows to them in the simplest Tweet yesterday by responding to yet another big scandal they've manufactured by actually boasting that he's 21 and 0! This dude is just unflappable. They've fired nukes at him and he's still standing. Watch their heads explode as it now appears his approval rating is on an uptick.

    Honestly, I'm stunned at this guys stamina and resilliance. Funny, though, he told us a long time ago about that when he said Hillary "Lacks stamina and strength." Apparently, he knew exactly what he was talking about.

    I'm waiting to see the earth shake when the 2020 election results roll in. Maybe he will actually get these folks to finally, finally, follow through on their threat to move to Canada. You should have seen my friends' reaction to what they billed as the bellweather elections in North Carolina last week. They were sure of victory. Why? The polls gave them hope. Then, BOOM. 2016 all over again, except that it wasn't close. They were absolutely distraught the next day.

    When Bill Clinton faced impeachment, he and his handlers were desperately doing everything they could to avoid it. This guy is flat out daring them to do it!

    Cats sleeping with dogs....mass hysteria! I must say I'm surprised, but man I'm enjoying watching this guy. Not my style and not the way I'd do things, but I also wouldn't survive in that swamp. He's doing the back stroke in it.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  5. #25
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    That depends on which way DC goes, because it can get worse. And IMO it has gotten worse. American global prestige, power projection, and leadership is a mere shadow of what it was.
    I think that is highly debatable. For example, the Germans don't like us. But they have dramatically increased their defense spending and contribution to Nato, as have others. Results. Not pretty, but results. I don't see how that translates into less power or prestige. When we had what you define as more power and prestige, they were spending and contributing much less.

    But they liked us and spoke nicely, so I guess if you measure that as power and prestige, then ok, you are right.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  6. #26
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Principal Skinr View Post
    Take a look at it from the other side. They view it as an onslaught against everything they desire. Their level of obsession with him is an indication that his fight is highly effective. They are worried. They are scared. They see a real threat to their agenda like none who have come before him. He was so bold to actually tell them that he was rolling them back right there in his slogan.

    Some of us may view him as a hot mess, but trust me, the other side sees it as a very coordinated and deliberate attack, even though they try to paint hiim as mentally ill, racist, or you fill in the blank. I see and hear every day the fear and obsession my friends on the left see in this guy. They've never been so battered and bruised for so long, so consistently. And what really scares them? Their attacks have done nothing to him. Absolutely zero. How many times have they thought they had the smoking gun, only for it to misfire. Over and over.

    He delivered one of the most painful blows to them in the simplest Tweet yesterday by responding to yet another big scandal they've manufactured by actually boasting that he's 21 and 0! This dude is just unflappable. They've fired nukes at him and he's still standing. Watch their heads explode as it now appears his approval rating is on an uptick.

    Honestly, I'm stunned at this guys stamina and resilliance. Funny, though, he told us a long time ago about that when he said Hillary "Lacks stamina and strength." Apparently, he knew exactly what he was talking about.

    I'm waiting to see the earth shake when the 2020 election results roll in. Maybe he will actually get these folks to finally, finally, follow through on their threat to move to Canada. You should have seen my friends' reaction to what they billed as the bellweather elections in North Carolina last week. They were sure of victory. Why? The polls gave them hope. Then, BOOM. 2016 all over again, except that it wasn't close. They were absolutely distraught the next day.

    When Bill Clinton faced impeachment, he and his handlers were desperately doing everything they could to avoid it. This guy is flat out daring them to do it!

    Cats sleeping with dogs....mass hysteria! I must say I'm surprised, but man I'm enjoying watching this guy. Not my style and not the way I'd do things, but I also wouldn't survive in that swamp. He's doing the back stroke in it.
    Don't be, he's a celebrity. This stuff is old hat to him. He's not really resilient, because a good portion of the things he gets attacked for, he (IMO) intends to get attacked for. He always looks to stay in the limelight.

    But yes, I do see where you're coming from, and there are a lot of people that attack him for dumb reasons. Funny enough, many of the people that complain about the dumb attacks were the same ones that pushed dumb attacks against Obama (tan suit anyone?). I personally think there's plenty of legitimate things to attack Trump for, but because I know how easily I can make people get all bent out of shape criticizing Trump, I don't start Trump themed threads (other than my approval thread) as to let mods keep the peace.
    I Have the Worst Crew Ever

  7. #27
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    I have not seen how our security has been noticeably improved , if at all. And as for a red hot economy, unless you're in the 1% or close to it, you aren't seeing the benefits. In fact, in light of the recent bullying of the FED, if you were someone who was responsible with their money, you're about to see losses, to keep that red hot economy going, and the banksters fat.
    Really? That sounds like the DNC talking points.

    I'll give you an example of how it has impacted the bottom 1%. In our high poverty public school, we saw an incredible thing happen the last two years, and this year it was dramatic. Our band students' families came in and actually paid their instrument rental up front, in full. That used to account for a tiny portion of our instrument rental. Now it is the majority. Our applications and requests for aid have dropped out the bottom.

    Apparently, Trickle Down Economics is a thing. I have seen it with my own eyes. I've had parents tell me they've gotten their first jobs in years. Others have said they've left their low paying jobs for higher paying ones. Our free/reduced lunch rate has shown a sharp decline. As we've reached out to families who have qualified before, we are finding their income no longer qualifies them. Some of my very left leaning staff have even admitted the economy is having a postive impact on our community.

    That doesn't sound like the top 1% beneifiting alone. Time to come up with a new spin, which seems to be the left openly hoping for a recession. I've heard and seen that, too. Disgusting.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  8. #28
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    Don't be, he's a celebrity. This stuff is old hat to him. He's not really resilient, because a good portion of the things he gets attacked for, he (IMO) intends to get attacked for. He always looks to stay in the limelight.

    But yes, I do see where you're coming from, and there are a lot of people that attack him for dumb reasons. Funny enough, many of the people that complain about the dumb attacks were the same ones that pushed dumb attacks against Obama (tan suit anyone?). I personally think there's plenty of legitimate things to attack Trump for, but because I know how easily I can make people get all bent out of shape criticizing Trump, I don't start Trump themed threads (other than my approval thread) as to let mods keep the peace.
    I do agree about dumb attacks. Plenty of that to go around. Just like on the left, I have friends on the right who couldn't bring themselves to admit when Obama did something positive. That's a shame. Hopefully, we'll all get tired one day of the lack of civility and the pendulum will swing back. Hell, some get their panties in a bunch when I use the word "friends" on the left. Yes, they are my friends. Dear friends. I just disagree with them, but I love them just the same.

    Still, there is some strange relief in seeing the left get a full plate of their own medicine. Unlike GW Bush, they aren't taking it with even the slightest hint of dignity.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  9. #29
    Grandmaster phylodog's Avatar

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    My definition of power projection doesn't include a responsibility to show the world we will defend anyone who asks us. I believe Iran, NK & Russia have felt comfortable enough to test the waters more because this country appears to be tearing itself apart at the seams than because they see fault with Trump.

    I don't particularly care how the rest of the world views our country. Call it naive or whatever you will but we've spent far too much money and lost too many lives trying to be the police for the entire planet. We are quite clearly established as the number one superpower in the world and that should bring with it some benefits other than a responsibility to spend more and sacrifice more to save the rest of the world. EU countries have more than enough problems of their own they're apparently unwilling to resolve, I don't know why they would be wasting time worrying about what we're doing. Oh wait, that's right, they're expecting us to save them from themselves.

    There's a reason the US enjoys four times the number of immigrants than any other country.
    There's lots of ________ on here who don't fit your particular stereotype, smearing us with goofball sophistry is what is out of line. It just makes gunowners look like *******s.

    - CarmelHP

  10. #30
    Grandmaster

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    All the above notwithstanding, I believe the #1 reason Trump was elected was Hillary. No, he's not the best person for the job. The best person for the job, whoever he/she is, has enough sense to not want the job. However, given the choices we had, Trump was clearly the best pick. When you have to make such a choice, you're gonna' have to live with the result.

    If your crystal meth dealer has all his teeth, he's a cop!

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