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  1. #1091
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    You seem to be upset for points I didnít make. I said everyone who votes for impeachment should apply the same standard, that it should rise above what they personally know other presidents have done, who wereít impeached for it. And, I donít know what that is. Theyíre in a better position to know. I donít know with enough certainty to apply the standard myself, but I strongly suspect Obama knew what was happening with the gun running. Same with the IRS scandal. Thereís no evidence that there were instructions from above to target the opposition because any potential evidence was destroyed. But, if people in his own party were privy to it, and they didnít impeach him for it, they have no business impeaching other presidents if they did the same thing. That was the point. If you only apply standards when itís the opposite party, itís just a power tactic, not an execution of justice.

    And about my not giving a ****, itís not about excusing rancid behavior. Itís looking at the alternative, and throwing up my hands in frustration. There is not a ďsafeĒ alternative in the Democratic party. And there are plenty of reasons to suspect corruption there. You think thereís such a clear reason to impeach Trump on the Ukraine thing, when there is actually less evidence for a quid pro quo than there than there is for Joe Biden.

    And Iím willing to say that even if there was with Biden, even thou I think itís corrupt, it doesnít rise to the level of impeachable offenses. Censure, yeah, but thatís just a slap on the wrist. I think if Biden or Trump are guilty, they should be fined some multiple of the determined value of the quid pro quo.

    Or, idunno, what do you think the fine should be for Obama sucking Medvedevís **** on a hot mic? Probably the same as you would demand if Trump did it. But I doubt youíd notice the equity.
    Ok, "strongly suspect" doesn't make the case. He very well may have know, but we prosecute what we KNOW, not what we suspect. Obama very well may have had a hand in those things, but if he did, he was apparently smarter than Trump, and was able to keep it hidden. If we don't know, for sure, what can we do about? Nothing. Wringing your hands saying "I know he's dirty" doesn't amount to hill of beans if you can't tie the wrongdoing to the person you suspect of directing it.
    I Have the Worst Crew Ever

  2. #1092
    INGO Clown printcraft's Avatar

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    The community organizer from Chicago was above all of that political deep state stuff.
    His fellow travelers did everything on their own, he was not involved in any way in any aspect of his administration.
    IRS targeting, reporter targeting, gun running to the cartels.
    True story.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinNFluff View Post
    At a family gathering, my sister was getting ready to leave. She walked up and gave me a hug and said "Your phone is poking me." I smiled and replied simply with "That's not my phone".
    Quote Originally Posted by Leggdpms View Post
    ...he said alright sir and shaked my hard and said he has respect...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8088 View Post
    I cocked my head to the side a little and was admiring his piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    And seriously, where are those testicles being served? I want to just shove a handful into my mouth.

  3. #1093
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by printcraft View Post
    The community organizer from Chicago was above all of that political deep state stuff.
    His fellow travelers did everything on their own, he was not involved in any way in any aspect of his administration.
    IRS targeting, reporter targeting, gun running to the cartels.
    True story.
    Show your work, not what you suspect. I've never said Obama wasn't personally involved in ANY of those things. What I have said, is that no one have ever been able to prove that he was personally involved in those things. Suspected Vs Proven, there is a difference.
    I Have the Worst Crew Ever

  4. #1094
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    If Obama, as you said, set the IRS against political opponents, the he should have been impeached. SHOW me where that was indicated. If people, in the Trump administration, committed wrongdoings that the president was unaware, IMO that NOT something he should be impeached for. SHOW me where it was indicated that such actions took place, and that the president was unaware of said actions.
    I agree. But hard drives were destroyed, and sieves plugged tight. As I said, no evidence of fire other than the smoke. But if they had evidence, yes, that's an impeachable offense. The gun running? Not so much. But punishable somehow, sure.
    I have spoken.

  5. #1095
    Master Doug's Avatar

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    The point is moot.
    It is highly unlikely the Democrats will vote for impeachment.
    That would allow for open hearings, the Republicans being allowed to question witnesses, and Republicans also having subpoena power.
    It the current situation, the Democrats control 100% of the information given to the American people. They would be severely disadvantaged if the Republicans could present their side.
    The wild dogs cry out in the night as they grow restless, longing for some solitary company.

  6. #1096
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    Ok, "strongly suspect" doesn't make the case. He very well may have know, but we prosecute what we KNOW, not what we suspect. Obama very well may have had a hand in those things, but if he did, he was apparently smarter than Trump, and was able to keep it hidden. If we don't know, for sure, what can we do about? Nothing. Wringing your hands saying "I know he's dirty" doesn't amount to hill of beans if you can't tie the wrongdoing to the person you suspect of directing it.
    "Strongly suspect" doesn't make what case? What case do you think I was making? Did you just skim the post to find the first phrase you didn't like? Go back and try again. I'm not making the case that Obama was guilty of anything. I'm making a point about equity.
    I have spoken.

  7. #1097
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    Show your work, not what you suspect. I've never said Obama wasn't personally involved in ANY of those things. What I have said, is that no one have ever been able to prove that he was personally involved in those things. Suspected Vs Proven, there is a difference.
    Show your work? That seems one sided having yourself concluded that Trump is quite guilty of quid pro quo in Ukraine, because you read the ink blot that way. You've no better evidence of a quid pro quo there than there is that Biden did the same.
    I have spoken.

  8. #1098
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    You're passing off a Trumper talking point... the idea that while Trump is engaged in corruption openly, it's ok, because "they all do it"... and because the others hide their corruption, they may be just as bad or even worse. That's a piss poor excuse Jamil, mainly because you DON'T know if they others were engaged in corruption, and it's nonsensical to assume the other presidents were corrupt simply because this president was is. You either have proof or you don't.

    [Good to know you approve of the Caponian standard of many indictments, no convictions to judge the politicians you like. The definition of corruption encompasses dishonest as well as illegal behavior; so, has Holder answered those subpoenas yet? If you liked your health plan, was that the only criteria for whether you could keep it? Give me half the tools the Deep State and Democrats have put in play and I could easily prove Obama and/or Biden were corrupt. "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime" is not a standard I'm looking to adopt but I could if I had to. If I had the power to dig into the past of them without limit and the power to present discovered material in any manner I see fit, with a sycophantic press singing background, I could certainly paint them as corrupt - and the more tightly they lock down every iota of information about themselves (see:Obama) the more suspicious of them I am. Like jamil said, "If you act like you're hiding something, I'ma think you're hiding something". No judicial proceeding is happening, with the protections embodied in the Bill of Rights andlegal precedent, Trump isn't allowed discovery or to confront and cross-examine his accusers. It is more akin to Democrats wanting to vote him off the island. Much like your idolation of BHO, nothing has been proved, you've just been presented with a story that fits your confirmation bias. You can't hold two different standards for behavior depending on whether you like the guy and be thought Kutsistent]

    Remember when he said he could shoot a guy on 5th Ave, and not lose any votes? It's the same logic. He knows that he can do whatever he likes because his supporters would gladly follow him into hell.
    [This is making way too much of a stupid, throw-away comment that signifies nothing deep or lasting. It's not like he said that when he was elected it was the first time he was proud of his country or something]

    As far as following someone straight to hell, you might want to (re)read Dante - there are circles for all sorts of self-righteous behavior. Might want to look farther down that road you're following
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  9. #1099
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    I'm sorry, who was going to be impeached? And who set the IRS against political opponents? Show your work please so we can attach this to the culprit.
    Does the name Lois Lerner strike a familiar note? Without doubt she targeted conservative groups for biased treatment by the IRS. There are two ways you can play this

    1) Lerner did it all on her own and neither Obama nor his cabinet knew about it

    2) She would not have dared do this without tacit support from above

    Now consider the protection she got from the Obama administration and how she could 'lose' subpoenaed evidence without consequence or prosecution and try to make an honest distiction between the two
    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

  10. #1100
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    You seem to be upset for points I didnít make. I said everyone who votes for impeachment should apply the same standard, that it should rise above what they personally know other presidents have done, who wereít impeached for it. And, I donít know what that is. Theyíre in a better position to know. I donít know with enough certainty to apply the standard myself, but I strongly suspect Obama knew what was happening with the gun running. Same with the IRS scandal. Thereís no evidence that there were instructions from above to target the opposition because any potential evidence was destroyed. But, if people in his own party were privy to it, and they didnít impeach him for it, they have no business impeaching other presidents if they did the same thing. That was the point. If you only apply standards when itís the opposite party, itís just a power tactic, not an execution of justice.

    And about my not giving a ****, itís not about excusing rancid behavior. Itís looking at the alternative, and throwing up my hands in frustration. There is not a ďsafeĒ alternative in the Democratic party. And there are plenty of reasons to suspect corruption there. You think thereís such a clear reason to impeach Trump on the Ukraine thing, when there is actually less evidence for a quid pro quo than there than there is for Joe Biden.

    And Iím willing to say that even if there was with Biden, even thou I think itís corrupt, it doesnít rise to the level of impeachable offenses. Censure, yeah, but thatís just a slap on the wrist. I think if Biden or Trump are guilty, they should be fined some multiple of the determined value of the quid pro quo.

    Or, idunno, what do you think the fine should be for Obama sucking Medvedevís **** on a hot mic? Probably the same as you would demand if Trump did it. But I doubt youíd notice the equity.
    It can be boiled down even further, jamil

    It's why we laugh when Captain Renault says to Rick "I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

    I fear Kut doesn't get the joke

    You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you

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