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  1. #191
    Master spencer rifle's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    There are more differences than just that. The cost of Medicare is spread across society whether individuals want it or not. If youíre insured, you opted in. But aside from that the main point is right. The things that are similar enough are the things that cause healthcare to be so expensive. In both cases, the market that is created involves the payor and provider, but excludes the actual consumer, so thereís no incentive to provide the highest quality product for the lowest price.

    I think we would have a much better system if we broke the relationship between insurers and providers. The way it is now, and would be made worse with medicare for all, the transaction is pretty much between the payer and provider, neither of which, are you. In both cases, youíre the product.

    I think a better system is a free market system where all the transactions are with the consumer. So, insurers describe their coverage and compete on coverage and price, and consumerís buy whatever level of coverage they want. Healthcare providers compete on quality and price. You shop around for the best healthcare providers. When you need healthcar, you file the claim with your insurance company, they pay you the agreed upon amount for the service. You pay the provider.

    Healthcare should be like any other market. You shop around. You know what the insurance will pay (which is none of the provideís business) maybe you find someplace that will provide the servers for less than the insurance company pays for that procedure. You pocket the difference. Maybe your standards are high, and that costs more than your insurer will pay out, youíre willing to pay the difference so you go to that provider. That market transaction is then between you and the provider.
    Good luck with that. Last year my wife called around to get prices for a shoulder x-ray. The most common answer by far was "We don't know." How could you not know? What, you've never done a shoulder x-ray before? Could you imagine going into a car dealership and they couldn't tell you how much the car sells for? Or a hardware store? Or almost ANYWHERE else?

    Prices ranged from $2500 to $60 (with a reading fee). It really depends on who is paying.
    Rights are only as secure as the ability to wield sufficient force to defend them. - J. Neil Schulman

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  2. #192
    INGO Clown printcraft's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinNFluff View Post
    At a family gathering, my sister was getting ready to leave. She walked up and gave me a hug and said "Your phone is poking me." I smiled and replied simply with "That's not my phone".
    Quote Originally Posted by Leggdpms View Post
    ...he said alright sir and shaked my hard and said he has respect...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8088 View Post
    I cocked my head to the side a little and was admiring his piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    And seriously, where are those testicles being served? I want to just shove a handful into my mouth.

  3. #193
    Expert nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by spencer rifle View Post
    Good luck with that. Last year my wife called around to get prices for a shoulder x-ray. The most common answer by far was "We don't know." How could you not know? What, you've never done a shoulder x-ray before? Could you imagine going into a car dealership and they couldn't tell you how much the car sells for? Or a hardware store? Or almost ANYWHERE else?

    Prices ranged from $2500 to $60 (with a reading fee). It really depends on who is paying.
    Sometimes the same exact service costs a different amout for different patients too.
    If the provider accepts medicare assignment and a medicare patient comes along then the price of the service is whatever medicare pays.
    Frequently this payment is not enough to cover the actual cost of the service.
    So another patient comes along with private insurance and the price of the same service is higher and attempts to make up for the loss with the medicare patient.

    Naturally if all patients are medicare patients this healthcare provider will have to seriously consider closing its doors.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by spencer rifle View Post
    Good luck with that. Last year my wife called around to get prices for a shoulder x-ray. The most common answer by far was "We don't know." How could you not know? What, you've never done a shoulder x-ray before? Could you imagine going into a car dealership and they couldn't tell you how much the car sells for? Or a hardware store? Or almost ANYWHERE else?

    Prices ranged from $2500 to $60 (with a reading fee). It really depends on who is paying.
    This is so common, the medical staff have no idea what the changes are. A recent news story told of a woman who needed a procedure under her deductible, she diligently determined the costs by checking with all involved as she was on a tight budget, when the bills arrived there was one that doubled the total expense, the hospital never informed her of the charge when she asked.

    For scheduled procedures the patient should be given an itemized disclosure of the costs much like mortgage lenders are required do for their customers. And since the hospitals are buying out the practices and labs, make them responsible for the accuracy of the disclosure.

  5. #195
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
    Most excellent. Must spread rep etc.

  6. #196
    Grandmaster indiucky's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by patience0830 View Post
    Thread killing historian.

  7. #197
    Expert nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomike View Post
    This is so common, the medical staff have no idea what the changes are. A recent news story told of a woman who needed a procedure under her deductible, she diligently determined the costs by checking with all involved as she was on a tight budget, when the bills arrived there was one that doubled the total expense, the hospital never informed her of the charge when she asked.

    For scheduled procedures the patient should be given an itemized disclosure of the costs much like mortgage lenders are required do for their customers. And since the hospitals are buying out the practices and labs, make them responsible for the accuracy of the disclosure.
    Keep in mind the difference between cost and price. The cost to a provider is one thing and the price charged is another.
    Lets say it costs the provider $1000 for a service.
    The medicare bean counter bureaucrats decide they will pay $300.
    A medicare-only patient comes in and the price will be $300 but the cost is still $1000. The provider loses money.
    Now a well insured patient comes in and the price might be $1700 but the cost is still $1000. The provider makes up for the medicare-only patient and breaks even between the two patients.
    So the more medicare-only patients that come in the more the provider gets behind and the more they need to make up to stay in business.
    Right now there is an overabundance of medicare-only patients because the baby-boomers are getting to the age where they need more medical care. This is tough on providers.

  8. #198
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    A lot of private practices will not even accept new medicare patients now. If it's such a good system, you'd think they'd be all over it. My older uncle down south had a hell of a time even getting someone to see him.

    .

  9. #199
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by spencer rifle View Post
    Good luck with that. Last year my wife called around to get prices for a shoulder x-ray. The most common answer by far was "We don't know." How could you not know? What, you've never done a shoulder x-ray before? Could you imagine going into a car dealership and they couldn't tell you how much the car sells for? Or a hardware store? Or almost ANYWHERE else?

    Prices ranged from $2500 to $60 (with a reading fee). It really depends on who is paying.
    If we break the link between insurers and providers, itís always YOU who is the payer. Providers would have to figure out the real market value of their services.

    I know itíll never happen. Itís currently designed to extract the most wealth from the most people possible. No one with any power wants to upset that cash cow. Providers would be clueless how to operate in an open market.
    I have spoken.

  10. #200
    Expert nonobaddog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmpsteve View Post
    A lot of private practices will not even accept new medicare patients now. If it's such a good system, you'd think they'd be all over it. My older uncle down south had a hell of a time even getting someone to see him.

    .
    Exactly. Medicare does not pay what the care actually costs, sometimes a small fraction of the real cost. So if they started this 'medicare-for-all' crap, medicare would almost have to pay even less and it would really mess up medical care in the United States. Supplemental insurance would be needed more than ever if one actually wanted to receive medical care. Or really deep pockets.


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