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  • ATOMonkey

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jun 15, 2010
    7,635
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    Plainfield
    I have seen soooooooo many social media posts by people who have no flipping clue how teachers get paid or why, but they are certain that it needs to be more.

    Full disclosure, my wife is a special ed teacher...

    Let's do a little compare and contrast.

    8 weeks vacation minimum, starting out. I've been working 17 years for one company to get 5. State mandates 180 "days" in class. I know teachers work more than that, and more than 8 hours a day, but c'mon, that's still 81 days off. Also, working overtime without extra pay isn't just a teacher thing.

    Represented workforce negotiated $50k/yr give or take. I have to negotiate my own pay.

    State and local governments fund school corporations. I get paid based on how much product we sell.

    Not a bad gig, all in all... Pay goes way up if you move into administration, and you still get tons of vaca.

    Also, school corporations pay the salaries, so why are they protesting the state government? Also, who sets the school corporation budget?

    I've read through nearly all of the Indiana code, even the bits written in the 1800s and no where did I see anything about teacher salaries. What I did see is the the school corporation sets the salary. IC-20-28-9-1.5 section G

    (g) Each school corporation shall submit its local compensation plan to the Indiana education employment relations board.  For a school year beginning after June 30, 2015, a local compensation plan must specify the range for teacher salaries.  The Indiana education employment relations board shall publish the local compensation plans on the Indiana education employment relations board's Internet web site.

    It's ironic, to me anyway, that there are so many uneducated people, on an issue dealing primarily with education. Maybe it's because we don't pay teachers enough...:rolleyes::dunno::spend::scratch:

    All the snark and sarcasm aside, if I'm wrong on this, please let me know. Thank you!
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,612
    149
    Valparaiso
    ...Also, school corporations pay the salaries, so why are they protesting the state government? Also, who sets the school corporation budget?...

    Let me offer a clue as to one issue that's going on.

    An individual less affluent school district cannot take tax revenue from taxpayers in more affluent districts and redistribute it to themselves. The State, on the other hand.....
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
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    Coatesville
    My contract is for 185 days. I get paid for those. The time off is unpaid leave.

    I have a friend who once worked as a 911 dispatcher. She always gave me a hard time about my off time. She worked 4 days per week. She had a lot of vacation time. She worked less days per year than I did.

    The time off is probably the best thing about teaching.

    Political correctness and lack of academic freedom are probably the worst things about education after idiot administration.
     

    ATOMonkey

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jun 15, 2010
    7,635
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    Plainfield
    My contract is for 185 days. I get paid for those. The time off is unpaid leave.

    I have a friend who once worked as a 911 dispatcher. She always gave me a hard time about my off time. She worked 4 days per week. She had a lot of vacation time. She worked less days per year than I did.

    The time off is probably the best thing about teaching.

    Political correctness and lack of academic freedom are probably the worst things about education after idiot administration.

    Thank you for that clarification.

    I volunteer about 6 hours a week at my son's school and spend most of my time un-indoctrinating kids by using silly things like facts and logic.
     

    ATOMonkey

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Jun 15, 2010
    7,635
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    Plainfield
    Let me offer a clue as to one issue that's going on.

    An individual less affluent school district cannot take tax revenue from taxpayers in more affluent districts and redistribute it to themselves. The State, on the other hand.....

    Even if they were allowed to "re-distribute" more money, there is nothing that says it has to go to compensation, as that is paid out of the general fund (to the best of my knowledge).
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,612
    149
    Valparaiso
    Even if they were allowed to "re-distribute" more money, there is nothing that says it has to go to compensation, as that is paid out of the general fund (to the best of my knowledge).

    Correct. ...and it’s not all about salaries.

    The people at the root of this “movement” don’t like that some districts are more well off than others. It’s deeper than that, of course, but this is one of the things at the heart of what is going on. Another is simply that they want more tax money for all schools. They can never take enough of your money.

    Don’t mistake the opinions of individual teachers who may just want the best for their students with the attitudes of the the political class within education.
     

    KLB

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 12, 2011
    23,007
    77
    Porter County
    My contract is for 185 days. I get paid for those. The time off is unpaid leave.

    I have a friend who once worked as a 911 dispatcher. She always gave me a hard time about my off time. She worked 4 days per week. She had a lot of vacation time. She worked less days per year than I did.

    The time off is probably the best thing about teaching.

    Political correctness and lack of academic freedom are probably the worst things about education after idiot administration.
    That just means that you receive your annual salary in fewer payments than I do.

    Teachers tend to have pretty good retirement benefits too.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
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    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
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    Coatesville
    Thank you for that clarification.

    I volunteer about 6 hours a week at my son's school and spend most of my time un-indoctrinating kids by using silly things like facts and logic.

    Facts are stubborn things.
     

    Mark-DuCo

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Aug 1, 2012
    2,265
    113
    Ferdinand
    I just compared some numbers with my local school system. If they have the 185 day contract as stated above, then the teachers are making about $230 per day of work. I on the other hand make about $200 per day of work if I don't have to work any Saturdays as I am salary. I can almost guarantee that their insurance and retirement are better than mine as well.

    In the end I do make more than teacher do, but I also work a lot more hours. So I don't understand the problem really.
     

    jagee

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Jan 19, 2013
    44,412
    113
    New Palestine
    My wife is a kindergarten teacher. Kindergarten is not mandatory. It does, however, have required standards the kids (read: teachers) need to meet. No more naps and coloring for kindergartners.

    My wife's contract time is 0730 to 1545. Class starts at 0730 - not a good idea to walk in when you're supposed to be ready to start teaching. Shes in a meeting until 1545 - if she leaves as soon as the meeting is over that leaves 0 hours to prep for the next day. (She does have a "prep period" which is usually used not prepping, but dealing with behavioral issues or parent phone calls or some other meeting shes required to attend.) Therefore prep work turns in to unpaid work. She regularly works 2+ hours of an evening or goes in on the weekend to work (again for free) for 4 hours. Her insurance used to be better than mine, but then I got a new job and we are all on my insurance now - so no added benefits from that angle.

    Also, her raise is dependent on how well the kids in the district (or school - I forget) do on standardized tests. She is rewarded or punished for other people's actions. If there is a dumb kid or a kid who just doesn't care, that negatively affects her income. I've been trying to talk her in to taking a year off, working on getting her master's degree and trying to get in administration. She said she has no chance of administration without a master's.
     

    Mark-DuCo

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Aug 1, 2012
    2,265
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    Ferdinand
    Yeah, my hours are technically 7-3:30 I guess. But in 10 years, I have never worked less than 6:30-4:30. That's part of a salary position, you are paid to do a certain job, and you agreed to do it for a certain salary, not work a certain amount of hours. If people want a dedicated start and stop time, then they shouldn't be taking salary positions.
     

    Jludo

    Master
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    3   0   0
    Feb 14, 2013
    4,163
    48
    Indianapolis
    A different way to look at it is are we paying teachers enough to attract good people into the role. Im not sure I've met a teacher who says they suggest it to someone thinking about a career right now.

    34k a year, even if it's a short year, doesnt seem to be attracting people.
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,612
    149
    Valparaiso
    A different way to look at it is are we paying teachers enough to attract good people into the role. Im not sure I've met a teacher who says they suggest it to someone thinking about a career right now.

    34k a year, even if it's a short year, doesnt seem to be attracting people.

    That is one issue and whether teachers are being paid appropriately is always worth exploring.

    ...but the "Red for Ed" thing is much deeper than that. I wouldn't quite call teacher salary a stalking horse in this movement, but it is certainly put out front because it is the hardest issue to attack. It is just the marquee issue that people who like their teachers will find it hard to be against.

    Other things such as being against vouchers, private schools, charter schools, unless unionized, diminishing local funding and control in an effort to redistribute wealth, "progressive" viewpoints being promoted in classrooms, etc., etc., etc.

    The whole thing is a clever campaign to get the public to agitate to enact anything the NEA wants....because the NEA is behind this.
     
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    Jludo

    Master
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    3   0   0
    Feb 14, 2013
    4,163
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    Indianapolis
    Is it possible to just pay teachers so much that they dont need a union?
    Most teachers would prefer not be forced to be part of one anyway.
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,612
    149
    Valparaiso
    Is it possible to just pay teachers so much that they dont need a union?
    Most teachers would prefer not be forced to be part of one anyway.

    Would they work without a union if we paid them what they are making now plus whatever their union dues are? If not, why not?

    ...and do you seriously think that the unions would allow that to happen?
     

    Jludo

    Master
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    3   0   0
    Feb 14, 2013
    4,163
    48
    Indianapolis
    Would they work without a union if we paid them what they are making now plus whatever their union dues are? If not, why not?

    ...and do you seriously think that the unions would allow that to happen?

    Im saying why not just pay them more than the unions are getting them? A lot easier to not join the union of you're making 50k and not having your benefits reduced every year.
     
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