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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    Back when I was a young buck, I was looking at basically 2 colleges, Purdue and Rose-Hulman. Purdue was about $9k a year, Rose was $25k a year. I told the Rose people that I could swing $10k to go there, or I could take my $9k to Purdue. Low and behold they found the money... $15k in financial assistance from the college itself. Plus a work study and some other scholarships. Ta da!!! I graduated with about $20k in debt and my starting salary was the, as calculated and researched, $50k. It was a 30 year term at 2.5% I think.
    Good for you. Truly. That was a very good way to handle it.
    However, young people have been setup to fail. It really shouldn't surprise you that a huge number are sleepwalking straight into the problems that the "best advice" has directed them towards.
    Which office does Carter Page go to to get his reputation back?

  2. #42
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    Bull spit. My son is in 6th grade and just learned how to calculate interest on a loan. No one is being "sold" anything. They're hearing what they want to hear. It's all confirmation bias, "I want to go to college, and teacher says I should go to college, so I'm going to college."

    People sell themselves on the idea that a degree fixes everything. I have a nephew that wants to get this Master's degree. I asked him why and he says, "because I like to learn" or some such garbage. I asked him how he's going to pay for it, and he's more than happy, delighted even, to just be fully and willfully ignorant of that. He does't like his job, so his solution is to go back to college, because that is where he had fun. He definitely doesn't want to hear anything about how money is going to get in his way of being a professional student.

    Again, the people the lying to themselves. They hear what they want to hear. They want to hear that the world is easy and fun and you don't have to worry about how you will make ends meet. It all just "works out."

    It's laziness pure and simple.
    Sounds like AOC's infamous quote about how people afford rent and comparing that to the cost of her Green New Deal. "You just pay for it."

  3. #43
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I never go into anything without my eyes wide open.

    When I selected my degree, I already knew what the job market was for that degree, the average starting salary, and what my debt payments would be. One of the reasons I chose mechanical engineering over Aeronautical (which is what I really wanted) is that the market for Aero is much smaller than the market for mechanical.

    It boggles me that everyone doesn't use what seems to be a pretty common sense decision making process. Count the cost.

    I also knew I wanted a desk job, because I had spent enough time laboring to know that, while rewarding and low investment cost, was REALLY hard. Laboring also had a ceiling unless I wanted to start my own company.

    When I bought my house, in 2005, I could have doubled the amount I borrowed with some clever financial wrangling. Aren't I glad I didn't 3 years later. Why? Because I did my homework. What happens if the rate on my short term ARM doubles or triples in a down market? What if I need to sell my house? etc.

    As P.T. Barnum may or may not have said, "There's a sucker born every minute."
    Congratulations on your discernment. I made a similar switch (from Aero to ChemE) for similar reasons, but didn't wise up until my sophomore year. I did so at a time when opportunity in Aero was still quite broad, but I didn't like how brutally cyclic the industry was (although I loved the discipline itself). I didn't lose much time because of how the College of Engineering was structured
    Who knew liberty would contain so many stems and seeds

  4. #44
    Master Hawkeye's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but I never go into anything without my eyes wide open.

    When I selected my degree, I already knew what the job market was for that degree, the average starting salary, and what my debt payments would be. One of the reasons I chose mechanical engineering over Aeronautical (which is what I really wanted) is that the market for Aero is much smaller than the market for mechanical.

    It boggles me that everyone doesn't use what seems to be a pretty common sense decision making process. Count the cost.

    I also knew I wanted a desk job, because I had spent enough time laboring to know that, while rewarding and low investment cost, was REALLY hard. Laboring also had a ceiling unless I wanted to start my own company.

    When I bought my house, in 2005, I could have doubled the amount I borrowed with some clever financial wrangling. Aren't I glad I didn't 3 years later. Why? Because I did my homework. What happens if the rate on my short term ARM doubles or triples in a down market? What if I need to sell my house? etc.

    As P.T. Barnum may or may not have said, "There's a sucker born every minute."
    When I was a freshman in college, one of the upperclassmen in my dorm house told me he had originally enrolled in Aeronautical engineering. Then Proxmire got the US SST cancelled. This caused him to rethink his degree, and switched to Mechanical. This happened early enough in his college career to not cause him to lose any time. So he went away happy, I guess...

  5. #45
    Grandmaster HoughMade's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    When I was a freshman in college, one of the upperclassmen in my dorm house told me he had originally enrolled in Aeronautical engineering. Then Proxmire got the US SST cancelled. This caused him to rethink his degree, and switched to Mechanical. This happened early enough in his college career to not cause him to lose any time. So he went away happy, I guess...
    My cousin was educated as a mechanical engineer then, after a couple of years at Chrysler, he spent the rest of career at Boeing, retiring comfortably at age 61. Opportunity is where it is.
    ​Bullies suck. They also make you stronger.

  6. #46
    Grandmaster ATOMonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phase2 View Post
    ... young people have been setup to fail ...
    False. Young people have the ability to think for themselves, they just choose not to. They are more than content to have mommy and daddy and the glowing box make all of their decisions for them, because it's easy. They are also enabled to make bad decisions by sentiment like this. We absolve them of all responsibility, and shift the blame squarely onto some nebulous boogy-man. We've also made it taboo to say that someone's dream for themselves is a stupid idea, especially when they have no plan.

    Researching college and career isn't even that hard. It takes about an hour tops and access to the internet. It just requires more effort than playing fortnite and sexting.

  7. #47
    Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    False. Young people have the ability to think for themselves, they just choose not to. They are more than content to have mommy and daddy and the glowing box make all of their decisions for them, because it's easy. They are also enabled to make bad decisions by sentiment like this. We absolve them of all responsibility, and shift the blame squarely onto some nebulous boogy-man. We've also made it taboo to say that someone's dream for themselves is a stupid idea, especially when they have no plan.

    Researching college and career isn't even that hard. It takes about an hour tops and access to the internet. It just requires more effort than playing fortnite and sexting.
    False. We have never been in a period when this is less true. Young people have been indoctrinated rather than educated by the current educational system for decades. Hence the rise of PC/SJW culture. They have been told all their lives by those in whom they should have reason to trust that college is the way to success, that they will make more money than if they don't go and that it is the passage to the middle/upper class life.
    Which office does Carter Page go to to get his reputation back?

  8. #48
    Grandmaster ATOMonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phase2 View Post
    False. We have never been in a period when this is less true. Young people have been indoctrinated rather than educated by the current educational system for decades. Hence the rise of PC/SJW culture. They have been told all their lives by those in whom they should have reason to trust that college is the way to success, that they will make more money than if they don't go and that it is the passage to the middle/upper class life.
    Unless someone is FORCING a decision on you, which isn't the case, then they still have free will and the ABILITY to make their own decisions. Whether they choose to exercise that ability or not is their choice. Again, it doesn't feel good to have your dream squashed because you can't afford it. It feels much better to just ignore reality and listen to all the confirmation bias instead. Laziness means you don't want to make your own decisions and you're more than happy to have someone else make them for you.

  9. #49
    Master

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    You repeatedly mix up having an ability to do something with seeing a reason to do so. When a future returns method of analyzing the value of college or a specific college path is actively taught and the kids are led down that path, then I expect to see everyone do it (which does not match current reality). Until then, I'll believe that current students are being setup to fail (which does match current reality).

    Please tell me which students have selected gender/race/etc studies that were also informed it would be a good idea to do a future returns analysis. I highly doubt the vast majority of those students are even aware that such an option is available and its value.
    Which office does Carter Page go to to get his reputation back?

  10. #50
    Grandmaster doddg's Avatar

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    Refreshing article!
    Glad I stumbled on to it.


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