Change My Mind, The Push For Electric Vehicles Is About Control...

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  • Ingomike

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    May 26, 2018
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    While not the only reason, I believe one of the globalist/socialist goals is to reduce citizens mobility and independence. Fossil fuel powered vehicles are far more independent than electric/battery powered vehicles. Without guns and fossil fuel powered vehicles defense against unconstitutional actions becomes extremely difficult.
     

    HoughMade

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    I've an oil well and refinery in my back yard, so sure fossil fuel vehicles are more independent.

    Wait, that's not right...but I could have solar panels and a windmill.

    Certainly, fossil fuel vehicles are the better choice for cross country, but they still depend on a complex infrastructure.
     

    marvin02

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    Calumet Twp.
    There are people who have sincere beliefs about the need for electric cars to protect the environment. A 100% solar powered car would negate the issue the OP sees and actually make people more mobile.

    What I see as an issue is that the total impact/cost is not considered. How much energy do the facilities producing the batteries use? What are the plans and costs for long term disposal of used batteries? What are the energy costs to build out the needed infrastructure? Are these costs figured into studies of the cost per mile of using that vehicle?

    I laugh when I see an electric car with a "Zero Emissions" bumper sticker. Just because the emissions created to power the car are produced at the power plant does not mean that using that vehicle results in no pollution. The energy is produced somewhere. The sticker should read "I have moved my emissions production elsewhere. I can't see them or smell them so everything is OK and I feel good about myself! Aren't I cool?"
     

    HoughMade

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    I'll be on board with electric vehicles when I decide they make sense to me- full stop. For the way I use a vehicle, electrics are not ready for prime time. For me, politics, the environment or how the neighbors view me have 0% with how I decide what vehicle to buy. It's all cost to me will it work for what I need it for, and does it have the features I want.
     

    Jludo

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    Feb 14, 2013
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    I've an oil well and refinery in my back yard, so sure fossil fuel vehicles are more independent.

    Wait, that's not right...but I could have solar panels and a windmill.

    Certainly, fossil fuel vehicles are the better choice for cross country, but they still depend on a complex infrastructure.

    This,
    Also electric vehicle range is trending in the right direction, if it surpasses gas vehicles does this argument flip?
     

    marvin02

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    I was actually researching the Chevy Volt. Electric only for short trips with about a 400 mile range with the engine. Then GM killed it. Never really got serious about it because the announcement that they were discontinuing it came right when I started looking at them
     

    two70

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    Feb 5, 2016
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    This,
    Also electric vehicle range is trending in the right direction, if it surpasses gas vehicles does this argument flip?

    IF electric vehicle range and recharge time/convenience ever meets or exceeds that of gas vehicles the Reds/Greens will then oppose electric vehicles in favor of whatever new, poorly working technology is available at that time.
     

    HoughMade

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    This,
    Also electric vehicle range is trending in the right direction, if it surpasses gas vehicles does this argument flip?

    They are on the cusp of over 500 mile range....however, the long time to recharge....even with "super-chargers" would still keep me away. Towing- electric vehicles lose 2/3 to 3/4 of their range when towing heavy loads. That theoretical 500 mile range becomes closer to 180 miles and with hours to fully recharge, that's a no-go. If you can refuel quickly, as with gas or diesel, not an issue.

    Conquer that, which they inevitably will, with the right price point, which will take longer, and I'll be a customer.

    From this perspective, I'm pretty much an "everyman".
     
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    Jludo

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    Couldn't you argue the opposite that globalists socialists want you dependent on oil for transportation? They can control that supply easier than they can you getting electricity.
     

    sparky32

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    11   0   0
    Feb 5, 2013
    803
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    Morgantown
    I would change if it was cost effective. IF it could do the things I would need it to do. Haul 10,000 lbs 5th wheel for 400 miles among other things. I believe it will be impractical for me for a long time. The ugly a** truck looking thing Tesla just had out is a definate NO.
     

    HoughMade

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    Couldn't you argue the opposite that globalists socialists want you dependent on oil for transportation? They can control that supply easier than they can you getting electricity.

    Yes...and it's an easier argument to make. The only DIY diesel alternative involves begging or buying used cooking oil from restaurants....and that's not really DIY. There are wood gas powered vehicles....but that seems like a bridge too far for...pretty much everyone. Then there are stills...but we apparently hate alcohol fuels and you would need a ready supply of sugar-rich plant material and becomes your full-time job.
     
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    MCgrease08

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    There are people who have sincere beliefs about the need for electric cars to protect the environment. A 100% solar powered car would negate the issue the OP sees and actually make people more mobile.

    What I see as an issue is that the total impact/cost is not considered. How much energy do the facilities producing the batteries use? What are the plans and costs for long term disposal of used batteries? What are the energy costs to build out the needed infrastructure? Are these costs figured into studies of the cost per mile of using that vehicle?

    I laugh when I see an electric car with a "Zero Emissions" bumper sticker. Just because the emissions created to power the car are produced at the power plant does not mean that using that vehicle results in no pollution. The energy is produced somewhere. The sticker should read "I have moved my emissions production elsewhere. I can't see them or smell them so everything is OK and I feel good about myself! Aren't I cool?"

    This. So much this.

    If one is charging their EV with power from a coal fired plant, are they really lowering their carbon footprint? Probably not.

    Right now the question boils down to, where do end users prefer the emissions go? EV delivery vehicles do make a lot of sense in urban applications where the routes are short and there is a decent amount of idle time. An example is Chicago. FedEx and UPS service huge office buildings like the Sears tower. They can send an EV from the distribution center to the building and back 3-4 times a day. The route is under 10 miles. With no emissions at the tail pipe, it keeps air in the city cleaner. But that doesn't mean there aren't still GHGs spewing from the coal power plant 50 miles away.

    Right now natural gas is the cleanest and most mature alternative to gasoline and diesel. Adoption rates are still hampered by the lack of fueling infrastructure. It's feasible for fleets with behind the fence fueling capability, but for consumer vehicles? There's not much available.
     

    Super Bee

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    Until they can make an electric F-450 crew cab dually which can pull a 14000lb fifth wheel back and forth to Florida I will stick with my diesels.

    I need larger trucks for what I do and a Volt or Tesla will not cut it. Dont get me wrong, the Model S is not a bad looking car, just would not work for my family.
     

    Jludo

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    That is only an issue of politics though, we could go nuclear and reduce emissions, however think of all the important jobs we lose in the coal mining industry. And God knows jobs are the most important thing.
     

    Jludo

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    As to the big truck argument, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any inherent reason one couldn't be built, ev companies are just picking the lower hanging fruit right now.
     

    HoughMade

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    Oct 24, 2012
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    That is only an issue of politics though, we could go nuclear and reduce emissions, however think of all the important jobs we lose in the coal mining industry. And God knows jobs are the most important thing.

    Nuclear is the clear answer...and hated by the left and right for different reasons.
     

    HoughMade

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    As to the big truck argument, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any inherent reason one couldn't be built, ev companies are just picking the lower hanging fruit right now.

    See the range issues above. Big trucks towing big loads generally cover a lot of distance in a day. Recharge times- that is the stopping point.
     

    MCgrease08

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    As to the big truck argument, I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any inherent reason one couldn't be built, ev companies are just picking the lower hanging fruit right now.

    You can build an electric big rig, but with all of the batteries required to run it, you wouldn't be able to haul much.
     

    Leadeye

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    Jan 19, 2009
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    Electric cars are just another example of how to make big money from fashionable change. Everything about it has some government involvement so you can figure that back in the near past connected people put some cash up to law/lobby firms with connections to DOE and EPA regulators and management. It's an environmentally fashionable idea so you get free promotion from big media. I don't see a socialist ideology behind it, only another pay to play leadership scam on tax dollars.

    Always follow the money
     
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