Gentrification, Indianapolis, and The United Way

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  • OkieGirl

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    iti anunka (In the trees)
    https://www.eventbrite.com/e/unders...acism-a-four-part-series-tickets-113770612966

    My employer has asked it's employees to watch the new series from the United Way of Indianapolis called "Understanding the Roots of Racism".

    The second in the series was in regard to Housing. There was a gentleman as part of the panel who's first name was Wildstyle (I don't recall his last name) and he was discussing something called "White Flight". This concept was presented as the act of white homeowners/renters moving out of housing areas when black homeowners/renters moved in. This was discussed at some length between the moderator and panelists before moving on to the next point - Gentrification. As presented in the forum, this is a real problem. Gentrification occurs when white homeowners/renters move into housing areas that are primarily occupied by what they described at black homeowners/renters. The panel explained that this causes property taxes and rents to increase and negatively affects those long term residents. I'd never heard of the term so I did a quick google search and the definition given is slightly different than the United Way presentation.

    I found it very disconcerting that the previous point was that 'whites' moving out of an area was a terrible thing and the very next point was that 'whites' moving into an area was also an equally terrible thing. Am I missing something? I consider myself an active learner, critical thinker, and do appreciate hearing a variety of view points and life experiences. I am brought to a halt when there are discussion points that are sharply opposing stances offered by the exact same speaker within the same discussion panel. When everyone's heads were nodding in agreement to both points it causes me to take a step back. What am I missing? This is a championed by my employer.

    Search Results
    Dictionary
    gen·tri·fi·ca·tion

    /ˌjentrəfəˈkāSH(ə)n/
    Learn to pronounce

    noun

    • the process of renovating and improving a house or district so that it conforms to middle-class taste.
      "an area undergoing rapid gentrification"
     

    churchmouse

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    Look at what has happened along the 16th street corridor east of Meridian. New Jersey comes to mind. Folks have decided to rebuild the area that the last group of people have ran into the ground and yes some of those folks have been displaced in the effort.
    Now you see people walking and riding bikes and pushing baby carriages down those once terrible streets. And I mean terrible streets.

    So in all of that what is wrong. Growth. Upgrades and improvements to a once complete waste land of alley dwellers and creatures of the night.

    When they started into refurbing the inner city all those crap sacks were moved out by us into the rentals and section 8 was so lucrative and safe for the property owners we were assailed with some really terrible "People" that near ruined our streets just like they did the inner city.

    Thank God for the Hispanic wave that hit the west side. They have ran off the night dwellers and other miscreants. They are fixing up the houses. Kids are again playing in the streets behind us. Out door party's with family everywhere not drunker drugged up crap sakes shooting at each other. And yes they were shooting at each other.

    The Hispanics have made for the best neighbors we have ever had.
     

    Tombs

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    I found it very disconcerting that the previous point was that 'whites' moving out of an area was a terrible thing and the very next point was that 'whites' moving into an area was also an equally terrible thing. Am I missing something?



    Starting to understand? You can't reason with these people, you can't do anything they'll be pleased with, and they will shout racism at you 24/7/365.
    You're dealing with crazy people, mental health issues are a massive untreated issue in the US and a lot of the western world right now.

    Maybe some day we can rebuild and re-open the asylums so these people aren't out in the public terrorizing normal people.
     

    OkieGirl

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    iti anunka (In the trees)
    Silly Okie. You havent drank the Kool Aid yet? ANYTHING whites do is bad. You havent learned?

    That is except hand over their property to minorities and walk away empty handed.

    This, for example.
    https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-white-people-give-up-their-homes/

    I know, I know, I know...I just keep scratching my head and asking myself which way is up. When I was a kid in elementary school there was a day of the year where we celebrated the Oklahoma Land Run. We would study about the Boomers and the Sooners and we would go home and turn our little red wagons into the closest mock up of a settlers wagon, we would put a blanket and sack lunch in our wagon, our teachers would give us wooden stakes, we would dress as pilgrims or whatever we thought settlers wore...and when the bugle sounded we would run across the recess field and find a patch of ground and put up our stakes and have our lunch. It was lovely. Did I mention my Grandmother was Native? She had a slightly different view of my fun school experience. It's remarkably challenging to see the fun in all of that when you learned the truth behind the history of that land.

    I think that's why I try to keep an open mind as best I can. In this educational series I've got to say I've felt deeply offended and deeply angered by some of the discussion points. Perspective and Truth aren't always the same thing and one is very subjective. To present ones perspective as truth can be a very reckless tactic at making and serving cool-aid. I'm not sure I like the taste of that...
     

    indyjohn

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    In the trees
    Starting to understand? You can't reason with these people, you can't do anything they'll be pleased with, and they will shout racism at you 24/7/365.
    You're dealing with crazy people, mental health issues are a massive untreated issue in the US and a lot of the western world right now.

    Maybe some day we can rebuild and re-open the asylums so these people aren't out in the public terrorizing normal people.

    It's not so much starting to understand as it is reaching the level of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this any more". The hypocrisy is so strong and so obvious it hurts. "Pay attention to me because I'm (fill in the blank)" is showing itself for what it is - a baseless claim for attention.
     

    OkieGirl

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    iti anunka (In the trees)
    It's not so much starting to understand as it is reaching the level of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this any more". The hypocrisy is so strong and so obvious it hurts. "Pay attention to me because I'm (fill in the blank)" is showing itself for what it is - a baseless claim for attention.

    Here's something I've learned over the years...that I shouldn't judge the 'me' of 20 years ago with the knowledge that the 'me' of today has. Things change over time. There is a TON of hurt and anger in many minority communities across this great nation. Pretending like there isn't any basis for that is disingenuous. There are events and landmarks through history that aren't necessarily something we would all be proud of today. The reverse is also true, there are many things across the history of this great nation that should be celebrated. We (as a country with all of our great differences and similarities) have got to get to a point where we stop beating each other up for the sins of the past. Any good therapist will tell you that the best way to heal is to look to the bright future ahead of you! If we corporately can acknowledge that there were terrible tragedies in history and that the nation we know today has overcome those and worked over the past 200 years to establish a safe and secure nation where it's citizens are able to enjoy freedoms that are uniquely American. There is a phrase I remember from one of the Disney movies I had to sit through with my kids (think it was the Incredibles) and it was along the lines of 'when everyone is special, no one is'. It feels like the masses have spiraled into a mindset of "out victiming" each other; where one persons suffering or past is worse than the others. Until the mindset is shifted to one of overcoming the lumps and bumps of life, this whole angry struggle will just keep festering.
     

    Sigblaster

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    Look at what has happened along the 16th street corridor east of Meridian. New Jersey comes to mind. Folks have decided to rebuild the area that the last group of people have ran into the ground and yes some of those folks have been displaced in the effort.
    Now you see people walking and riding bikes and pushing baby carriages down those once terrible streets. And I mean terrible streets.

    So in all of that what is wrong. Growth. Upgrades and improvements to a once complete waste land of alley dwellers and creatures of the night.

    When they started into refurbing the inner city all those crap sacks were moved out by us into the rentals and section 8 was so lucrative and safe for the property owners we were assailed with some really terrible "People" that near ruined our streets just like they did the inner city.

    Thank God for the Hispanic wave that hit the west side. They have ran off the night dwellers and other miscreants. They are fixing up the houses. Kids are again playing in the streets behind us. Out door party's with family everywhere not drunker drugged up crap sakes shooting at each other. And yes they were shooting at each other.

    The Hispanics have made for the best neighbors we have ever had.

    Where I grew up, the homes were built strong, solid, sometimes ornate. Huge swaths of the city were built like that. Italians, Poles, Germans and such. When the immigrants gained wealth, they moved from the city to the suburbs, and the houses they built fell into disrepair. I worked in those neighborhoods, doing teardowns and rebuilds and remodels, updating plumbing and electrical upgrades. Drywall, cabinets, finish work, whatever.

    They tried to attract higher-income people to the area, to revitalize these sectors.

    They had one program where they would give grants to people to refurb old, well-constructed ornate homes. The people would get grants, and fix them up, and paint the ornate features and the houses in bright colors. I think they called them the "Painted Ladies". I don't know what their status is now.

    They had this other program, I think it was a HUD program. Sell you an abandoned duplex for like a dollar, and give you a $5000 grant to refurb it. Me and my construction buddy went at looked at one, and it was a solid house. For $5000 dollars, with a bunch of sweat equity, we could have made it a palace. Problem was, to get the grant, you had to commit to living in one side of the duplex for a year. No, F that.

    There's a reason people leave the cities. It's not race-based.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    When white/money flight happens it take a huge portion of the tax base with them to the suburbs of the surrounding counties. With gentrification the whites/money move back and the tax base increases and those who live in the area of gentrification can no linger afford to stay in the homes they were living in. And with that they move to the poorer parts on the surrounding city's suburbs.
    And the process starts again... Lather Rinse and Repeat...Seen it a few times with DC and parts of Balt...
     

    Mr Evilwrench

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    It's not so much starting to understand as it is reaching the level of "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take this any more". The hypocrisy is so strong and so obvious it hurts. "Pay attention to me because I'm (fill in the blank)" is showing itself for what it is - a baseless claim for attention.

    "Virtue signalling" its what they call that. They land in the poop du jour, and go to lengths to ensure that as many people as possible see them drinking the blue Koolade. I really don't even know what will make them happy. Maybe you just have to build up some woke cred.

    As far as actual sense, ignore them. It's just the normal forces of supply and demand.
     

    larcat

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    Good luck with it, it's tough when your mandated to think self counterdictory things in a professional environment like that.
     

    indyjohn

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    Where I grew up, the homes were built strong, solid, sometimes ornate. Huge swaths of the city were built like that. Italians, Poles, Germans and such. When the immigrants gained wealth, they moved from the city to the suburbs, and the houses they built fell into disrepair. I worked in those neighborhoods, doing teardowns and rebuilds and remodels, updating plumbing and electrical upgrades. Drywall, cabinets, finish work, whatever.

    They tried to attract higher-income people to the area, to revitalize these sectors.

    They had one program where they would give grants to people to refurb old, well-constructed ornate homes. The people would get grants, and fix them up, and paint the ornate features and the houses in bright colors. I think they called them the "Painted Ladies". I don't know what their status is now.

    They had this other program, I think it was a HUD program. Sell you an abandoned duplex for like a dollar, and give you a $5000 grant to refurb it. Me and my construction buddy went at looked at one, and it was a solid house. For $5000 dollars, with a bunch of sweat equity, we could have made it a palace. Problem was, to get the grant, you had to commit to living in one side of the duplex for a year. No, F that.

    There's a reason people leave the cities. It's not race-based.

    Interesting perspective. I see you and your team wanted to do well but the gov't put a requirement on you that didn't work well.
     

    larcat

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    Woke cred doesn't exist except for very short periods of time. Good works & cetera are utterly insufficient, both modern ones and historical.

    It's a rhetorical trick bag and almost never in good faith, so trying to apply basic reason and rules to his kind of stuff doesn't work.

    "I really don't know what will make them happy." In the long run, nothing that you do will. Anything short term is triage at best

    "Virtue signalling" its what they call that. They land in the poop du jour, and go to lengths to ensure that as many people as possible see them drinking the blue Koolade. I really don't even know what will make them happy. Maybe you just have to build up some woke cred.

    As far as actual sense, ignore them. It's just the normal forces of supply and demand.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    Where I grew up, the homes were built strong, solid, sometimes ornate. Huge swaths of the city were built like that. Italians, Poles, Germans and such. When the immigrants gained wealth, they moved from the city to the suburbs, and the houses they built fell into disrepair. I worked in those neighborhoods, doing teardowns and rebuilds and remodels, updating plumbing and electrical upgrades. Drywall, cabinets, finish work, whatever.

    They tried to attract higher-income people to the area, to revitalize these sectors.

    They had one program where they would give grants to people to refurb old, well-constructed ornate homes. The people would get grants, and fix them up, and paint the ornate features and the houses in bright colors. I think they called them the "Painted Ladies". I don't know what their status is now.

    They had this other program, I think it was a HUD program. Sell you an abandoned duplex for like a dollar, and give you a $5000 grant to refurb it. Me and my construction buddy went at looked at one, and it was a solid house. For $5000 dollars, with a bunch of sweat equity, we could have made it a palace. Problem was, to get the grant, you had to commit to living in one side of the duplex for a year. No, F that.

    There's a reason people leave the cities. It's not race-based.

    This was a thing in the areas I mentioned in my post. Buy some good bones for $1 and the Gov. gives you a serious check to refurb it and yeas you had to stay there. Not sure about the time limits but this ended up with some really nice parts of that section of town. I was involved with some HVAC work through there and dealt with the surrounding section 8 housing through a real estate management company. I learned a lot about the game and what it took to play it.

    When you roll through there now many of the old houses are gone as they were just to far dilapidated to repair. Some very unique homes and condo's grace the area now.
     

    churchmouse

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    I have been PM with the OP. She does not want this thread to go south peoples. I have much respect for her and IJ in the real world so lets keep it on the straight please.
     

    OkieGirl

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    The Indianapolis Housing Authority had a program offered last year to employees of several local businesses that offered down payment assistance to staff purchasing homes in very specific [blighted] areas. There were also funds available to make exterior repairs of existing homes. The rules were relatively straight forward, the employee had to be in good standing, have been out of their introductory period, and live in the home for a specified number of years. There are a TON of absolutely beautiful old homes in downtown Indy! So many beautiful opportunities and short commutes to downtown and all it's amenities. I find myself contemplating it every time I have to roll onto the highway for a long drive downtown...wish I could afford to pick up an old craftsman and make it a beauty.
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    This was a thing in the areas I mentioned in my post. Buy some good bones for $1 and the Gov. gives you a serious check to refurb it and yeas you had to stay there. Not sure about the time limits but this ended up with some really nice parts of that section of town. I was involved with some HVAC work through there and dealt with the surrounding section 8 housing through a real estate management company. I learned a lot about the game and what it took to play it.

    When you roll through there now many of the old houses are gone as they were just to far dilapidated to repair. Some very unique homes and condo's grace the area now.

    Baltimore has done the dollar homes a few times over the years. With Federal Hill it sorta worked but you might have 2 empty row homes next to you for a few years until they either get bulldozed or someone rehabs them. My youngest sister looked into doing one in Annapolis 20 years ago and to look at Clay st now she is glad she didnt do it....
    DC was a great place for that to work well, some great architecture in most of the old neighborhoods.
     

    Sigblaster

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    I have been PM with the OP. She does not want this thread to go south peoples. I have much respect for her and IJ in the real world so lets keep it on the straight please.

    Well, you know me, CM, so if I'm involved, a thread is certain to go off the rails. :abused:

    If you feel strongly enough about an issue to donate to a charity, please do it directly. United Way takes a huge portion of your contribution to feed its overhead costs. That's as much as I'm willing to say about that. Google can yield more information on that issue. It's admirable that you want to help others, but please ensure that the majority of the funds you donate go to where they are most needed.
     

    churchmouse

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    Well, you know me, CM, so if I'm involved, a thread is certain to go off the rails. :abused:

    If you feel strongly enough about an issue to donate to a charity, please do it directly. United Way takes a huge portion of your contribution to feed its overhead costs. That's as much as I'm willing to say about that. Google can yield more information on that issue. It's admirable that you want to help others, but please ensure that the majority of the funds you donate go to where they are most needed.

    Bingo.
     
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