More confusion re: last years rifle bill...

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  • Mgderf

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    This question is somewhat convoluted, but I'll try to explain.
    Last years new rifle bill opened up new calibers to be used for deer hunting, focusing on high power, center-fire rounds.
    One of the restrictions is the amount of ammo allowed in the field "for this rifle".

    The new proposal opens this up even further, to include all calibers .243" or over, with a minimum cartridge case length of 1.16", and retains the ammo count restriction.

    Included in this would be the .327 Federal magnum, soon available in a lever-action carbine.
    While this is not a "high-power" round, it is still a new addition under the new rules.

    So, If I decided to carry a Henry carbine in .327, does that mean I would NOT be able to also carry my SP101 at the same time?
    The Henry will hold 10 rounds, but the pistol uses the same rounds.

    Would this be a grey area opportunity for a less than friendly DNR official to charge me for a violation of the ammunition restriction?
    I guess I could have asked the same question using the PSA PA10 .308, and a Savage Striker pistol.
    They would both be sing the same caliber.

    I have a feeling that it would be all too easy for one DNR official to dismiss it, while another might view it as an egregious affront to the law.

    Does the ammo restriction only apply to high-power?
     

    gregr

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    This question is somewhat convoluted, but I'll try to explain.
    Last years new rifle bill opened up new calibers to be used for deer hunting, focusing on high power, center-fire rounds.
    One of the restrictions is the amount of ammo allowed in the field "for this rifle".

    The new proposal opens this up even further, to include all calibers .243" or over, with a minimum cartridge case length of 1.16", and retains the ammo count restriction.

    Included in this would be the .327 Federal magnum, soon available in a lever-action carbine.
    While this is not a "high-power" round, it is still a new addition under the new rules.

    So, If I decided to carry a Henry carbine in .327, does that mean I would NOT be able to also carry my SP101 at the same time?
    The Henry will hold 10 rounds, but the pistol uses the same rounds.

    Would this be a grey area opportunity for a less than friendly DNR official to charge me for a violation of the ammunition restriction?
    I guess I could have asked the same question using the PSA PA10 .308, and a Savage Striker pistol.
    They would both be sing the same caliber.

    I have a feeling that it would be all too easy for one DNR official to dismiss it, while another might view it as an egregious affront to the law.

    Does the ammo restriction only apply to high-power?

    Very good, and fair question. My knee-jerk response would be that, if the rifle could shoot the round in your sidearm, then you would be considered in violation.
     

    Mgderf

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    Five rounds in each should cover things,plus be legal.

    Unacceptable.
    You are not restricted to ammunition amounts with other pistol caliber rounds.
    I've never seen a restriction on the amount of .357mag or .44mag ammo one can carry.
     

    JimH

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    Unacceptable.
    You are not restricted to ammunition amounts with other pistol caliber rounds.
    I've never seen a restriction on the amount of .357mag or .44mag ammo one can carry.
    I think the law says no more than 10 such cartridges in the field-if you put say 9 in the .327 rifle and 5 in the .327 handgun and then go to the field,do you have more than 10? Telling a C.O. "unacceptable" might work.Good Luck!
     

    phylodog

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    I sure wouldn't chance it. Even if you email IDNR and get a response that you're fine I still wouldn't chance it. I don't hate on the conservation officers, I very much appreciate what they do but if there is a gray area in the regs I'm staying well away from it, as a group they don't tend to give benefit of the doubt.
     

    BigMatt

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    :yesway:

    I sure wouldn't chance it. Even if you email IDNR and get a response that you're fine I still wouldn't chance it. I don't hate on the conservation officers, I very much appreciate what they do but if there is a gray area in the regs I'm staying well away from it, as a group they don't tend to give benefit of the doubt.
     

    oldpink

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    Listen to JimH and Phylodog.
    Load the revolver with five and the carbine with five and you'll be within the restrictions of the law for sure.
    Or six in the revolver and only four in the carbine, just as long as the total number of rounds carried on your person does not exceed ten.
    With the changes to allow any rifle from .243 on up with 1.16" minimum case length, the .327 Federal Magnum would fall within the parameters of the newly legalized calibers, not the existing regulations regarding handgun caliber rifles, which specified the minimums of the bullet diameter of .357 and the 1.16" case length.
    If you had a rifle in one of the originally mandated handgun calibers, the ten round limit would not apply, at least for now.
     
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    bwframe

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    Wow, this is messed up. :) Pistol calibers / rules designed to prevent standard capacity rifle mag dumps, etc. :dunno:


    To add to the confusion, I'll ask a "go along" question.
    Has anyone come across what the penalty will be exactly for having too many rounds on you?
     

    oldpink

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    Wow, this is messed up. :) Pistol calibers / rules designed to prevent standard capacity rifle mag dumps, etc. :dunno:


    To add to the confusion, I'll ask a "go along" question.
    Has anyone come across what the penalty will be exactly for having too many rounds on you?

    I'll ask a better question: Why chance it?
    Dunno how far the DNR will go, but some of the penalties that they have been known to employ for some infractions include confiscation of the gun, confiscation of the vehicle, $500 fine, and even imprisonment.
    I doubt that they'd go that far for only having more rounds than allowed, but again, why push it?
     

    bwframe

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    I'll ask a better question: Why chance it?
    Dunno how far the DNR will go, but some of the penalties that they have been known to employ for some infractions include confiscation of the gun, confiscation of the vehicle, $500 fine, and even imprisonment.
    I doubt that they'd go that far for only having more rounds than allowed, but again, why push it?

    That is exactly the question. Is extra rounds carried treated the same as poaching?

    A self defense mindset is why you'd push it. I'm a one shot, one kill hunter, but it seems foolish to carry a long gun without adequate backup ammo. :dunno:

    The question is whether extra ammo is a slap on the hand or all out "poaching?" :rolleyes:
    Maybe small risk of fine, like a seatbelt or child seat driving violation or gun confiscation/court date?

    How is it determined whether I'm deer hunting or hiking the woods with a long gun?
    Even when dragging deer out, I'm no longer hunting.

    What is the limitation on how many dogs can run in a pack?
    Dogs Kill Census Worker, 71, Outside Indiana Cabin

    Why should I be limited on the ammo reserve that I could be using for self defense? Why should I be limited on the ammount of ammo I could be carrying on the return to my residence?

    At what point does a CO search my possessions to count rounds and do I have to consent to search?
     
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    Willie

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    I asked our resident CO on my Indiana hunting forum's Ask the CO and here is what he posted..

    The hunter would be limited to possessing no more than ten (10) cartridges that can be used in the rifle. This would not be considered a "gray area". Our officers have discretion in when they issue citations, arrest, or warnings. I am informing you based on what the statute says. If a hunter is within the statute, the officer will not be put in a position to determine which avenue will result in the hunter's future behavior being in compliance with the statute. An enforcement action is not only to hold the individual accountable for violating the statute but also to ensure the individual is deterred from committing violations in the future.


    IC 14-22-2-8 Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report
    Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after
    June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
    (b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt
    deer subject to the following:
    (4) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
     

    Mgderf

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    I asked our resident CO on my Indiana hunting forum's Ask the CO and here is what he posted..

    So, as written above, the ammunition restriction also applies to ALL rifles carried into the field?
    So now the .357's and .44's are also limited to 10 rounds in the field?

    This would be a new restriction on the old pistol calibers.
     

    gregr

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    So, as written above, the ammunition restriction also applies to ALL rifles carried into the field?
    So now the .357's and .44's are also limited to 10 rounds in the field?

    This would be a new restriction on the old pistol calibers.

    THIS! ^^^^^^^ Needs clarification. It sounds as though the 10 round limit applies to the CF Rifles only...but is the new law being applied to PCR`s as well? And if so, by whom? The DNR, or just the CO`s?
     

    Willie

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    I've always understood (maybe took for granted) that the original "new" rifle ruling did not have anything to do with the old so called "PCRs" ruling. IOW - The guy toting a .44 mag could still carry as many cartridges that he wanted to and on both public and private grounds. Supposedly this revision the only thing changing is the calibers themselves.

    The first go around on "HPRs"...

    https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/dnr-offers-clarification-on-new-rifle-hunting-law
     

    Mgderf

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    I've always understood (maybe took for granted) that the original "new" rifle ruling did not have anything to do with the old so called "PCRs" ruling. IOW - The guy toting a .44 mag could still carry as many cartridges that he wanted to and on both public and private grounds. Supposedly this revision the only thing changing is the calibers themselves.

    The first go around on "HPRs"...

    https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/dnr-offers-clarification-on-new-rifle-hunting-law

    But the new proposed rules add new pistol calibers to the mix.
    The .327 is not a rifle round, but will only be legal under the new proposal.

    So which rules apply to that cartridge? Pistol caliber rules, or the new "high-power" rules?
     
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