6.5 Grendel vs. 300 Blackout for youth deer rifle.

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  • Fargo

    Grandmaster
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    13   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    The brats are getting old enough to actually hunt so looking to add an upper which would be friendly to them. They are most all on the quite small/skinny side so manageable recoil is my biggest concern. I have hunted with the 300 but have no experience with the Grendel. I do like the longer legs of the Grendel for myself so there is some selfish bias.

    Any comparisons would be appreciated as well as any alternatives. TIA
     

    Redleg11b

    Plinker
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    1   0   0
    May 3, 2017
    90
    6
    Goshen/Elkhart
    In the event that you do not reload...

    https://vizardsgunsandammo.com/hornady-8152-custom-sst-6-5mm-grendel-123gr-20box-10case/

    https://www.stillwoodammo.com/product/300-blk-125-gr-sst/

    If you reload, typically the 300 BLK is also less expensive to reload for as the .308 diameter selection is typically better than the .264 bullets. Brass is cheaper, especially if you form your own from once fired 5.56 brass.
    If you want a Grendel for your own use, get it. It is still an excellent cartridge that is reasonably priced. If you reload with factory seconds for practice, it will also keep that part of the cost down for the kiddos plinking enjoyment.

    300 Blk is easier to find less expensive hunting ammo for if you know where to look. It also uses the same mags and bolt. To go to the Grendel, you would need at a minimum a different bolt in addition to the upper. The Grendel does have better reach, but unless the youngins are practicing at longer range effectively, it does no good. Something else you could look at is getting a single shot 357 magnum and having it reamed to Maximum. They can shoot anything from 38S&W up through the Maximum (38S&W, 38 Spcl and +P, 357 Mag, 360 DW, 357 Max). The 357 Mag can be quite an effective deer round inside 100 yards where most youngsters feel more comfortable making the shot, and the Max will extend that reach with ballistics besting the 30-30 with less recoil.

    I know that is not much help, but comparing ballistics is a waste inside typical hunting ranges. Placement with a properly designed bullet is the key. Get something the kids want to shoot, and shooting often, and they will have no problems dropping a deer. I think starting them off with 410s and rabbits or air rifles and squirrels would be good too. They could shoot forever with a good air rifle without breaking the bank, learn fundamentals of sight picture (and much overlooked follow through), and trips would typically only have to go out the back door. A step up to whichever upper combo you decide at that point will just be much simpler. If they are already shooting, and well practiced, I don't think it matters much what they use. I am sure they will be able to do their part with ease, and maybe just a little last minute coaching.
     

    Fargo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
    7,575
    63
    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    In the event that you do not reload...

    https://vizardsgunsandammo.com/hornady-8152-custom-sst-6-5mm-grendel-123gr-20box-10case/

    https://www.stillwoodammo.com/product/300-blk-125-gr-sst/

    If you reload, typically the 300 BLK is also less expensive to reload for as the .308 diameter selection is typically better than the .264 bullets. Brass is cheaper, especially if you form your own from once fired 5.56 brass.
    If you want a Grendel for your own use, get it. It is still an excellent cartridge that is reasonably priced. If you reload with factory seconds for practice, it will also keep that part of the cost down for the kiddos plinking enjoyment.

    300 Blk is easier to find less expensive hunting ammo for if you know where to look. It also uses the same mags and bolt. To go to the Grendel, you would need at a minimum a different bolt in addition to the upper. The Grendel does have better reach, but unless the youngins are practicing at longer range effectively, it does no good. Something else you could look at is getting a single shot 357 magnum and having it reamed to Maximum. They can shoot anything from 38S&W up through the Maximum (38S&W, 38 Spcl and +P, 357 Mag, 360 DW, 357 Max). The 357 Mag can be quite an effective deer round inside 100 yards where most youngsters feel more comfortable making the shot, and the Max will extend that reach with ballistics besting the 30-30 with less recoil.

    I know that is not much help, but comparing ballistics is a waste inside typical hunting ranges. Placement with a properly designed bullet is the key. Get something the kids want to shoot, and shooting often, and they will have no problems dropping a deer. I think starting them off with 410s and rabbits or air rifles and squirrels would be good too. They could shoot forever with a good air rifle without breaking the bank, learn fundamentals of sight picture (and much overlooked follow through), and trips would typically only have to go out the back door. A step up to whichever upper combo you decide at that point will just be much simpler. If they are already shooting, and well practiced, I don't think it matters much what they use. I am sure they will be able to do their part with ease, and maybe just a little last minute coaching.

    I do not presently reload, but that may be changing. They already have a 10 yd air rifle range in the pole barn and do go shooting with me. I am mostly concerned about recoil as they are all 65 lbs or less.
     

    avboiler11

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    Jun 12, 2011
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    New Albany
    All things equal, the 300BLK will have less recoil due to less powder and and lighter/same weight bullets...though the Grendel ain't exactly a 'heavy hitter'.

    A muzzle break will pretty much eliminate the recoil of either, though blast will be a consideration.
     

    Redleg11b

    Plinker
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    1   0   0
    May 3, 2017
    90
    6
    Goshen/Elkhart
    A basic reloading set up, excluding dies and components, can run from $100-$250. It will take a little bit of time to recoup that, but it is worth it in the long run. Another option for .357 is the Lee Loader that runs about $35. It is everything needed to load .38/357 except components and a small rubber or leather faced mallet. You would just need to find the rifle for it.

    Here is a basic recoil comparison of several cartridges. It does not include the 300, but I believe it will be in the 7.5-9 range depending on rifle weight.
    Rifle Recoil Table

    Just as an idea, I had a 30-30 and 357 Mag barrel for my H&R single shot. I loaded some reduced 30-30 to about 1,800 fps with a 125gr bullet. My son, about 80# at the time, preferred the full power .357 even though recoil was essentially the same. The loudness difference, and more intimidating sized cartridge, made the perceived recoil more. He loved shooting the .357Mag more than the 38spcl in it too. Just more food for thought, and ammo for it was still less than 300 or Grendel ammo will be.
     

    two70

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    Feb 5, 2016
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    Johnson
    I'm not a fan of the Grendel but it allows for a larger margin of error with shot placement and bullet performance than the Blackout. Having a wider margin of error is good thing when kids are involved.
     

    Redleg11b

    Plinker
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    May 3, 2017
    90
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    Goshen/Elkhart
    I'm not a fan of the Grendel but it allows for a larger margin of error with shot placement and bullet performance than the Blackout.
    Please elaborate. Is it because of ME? Better sectional density? Bullets commonly available designed for that velocity range vs the 30 cal options? Being familiar with the arguments, I see range advantages when dealing with wind and hold-overs, but nothing else appreciably different inside 150 yards except possibly bullet design.
     

    Redleg11b

    Plinker
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    1   0   0
    May 3, 2017
    90
    6
    Goshen/Elkhart
    Inside hunting distances it doesn't matter between the two. You pay more for the Barnes pills, but performance is there too. It is essentially about placement and how much recoil the children will tolerate.
     

    Fargo

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 11, 2009
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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Hmmmm, thinking about doing the Grendel with a brake for them to become proficient with, but pull the brake (with a rezero) for the season so no one loses an eardrum. My father just gave me a reloading press so I could probably get setup cheap to reload. I just don't want to give anyone a flinch, especially at their ages.
     

    two70

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    Please elaborate. Is it because of ME? Better sectional density? Bullets commonly available designed for that velocity range vs the 30 cal options? Being familiar with the arguments, I see range advantages when dealing with wind and hold-overs, but nothing else appreciably different inside 150 yards except possibly bullet design.

    Mostly bullet weight/design options combined with useful hunting velocity. The bullet weights for .300 blackout that provide useful hunting velocities range from 110 to 130 grains while the Grendel ranges from 90-130 grains. When you factor in the options for premium bullets, which, imo, one should be using in such cartridges, the number of options are even more limited. Plus when you factor in that the Grendel produces usable velocity out to 200 plus yards and the Blackout barely has them at the muzzle.


    I don't know many deer that would well tolerate a 110gr TAC-TX to the vitals at Blackout muzzle velocities inside of 200 yards.

    None will tolerate a perfect vital hit from such a quality bullet. Not every hit is a perfect vital hit and relatively few people will pay a few cents extra for premium bullets though.
     

    Ggreen

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    Sep 19, 2016
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    Blackout hands down. The blackout has less recoil than a 223 and is much more forgiving if they get buck fever and send a wild shot out. Grendel kicks enough to scare most newer hpr shooters, 300 does not and will help them learn to not fear flinch when pulling the trigger. Young kids will likely not be capable of shooting ethically past 150 yards and the 300bo is completely ethical out to 220ish. Inside of 100 yards a solid vital shot will destroy a deer, giving you 8 to 9 inches of target. Grendel is a good round, but it is unnecessary when talking about a kids first deer rifle. My 300blackout shoots supersonic rounds with near zero recoil using only a flash hider. at 55yards it laid the buck I shot last year in its tracks. He did not take a step. It has plenty of power, and plenty of range for most Indiana hunting.
     

    Fargo

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    Ggreen

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    Man, I totally disagree on this. I can't tell the difference in recoil between a 223 and a 6.5 Grendel in an AR15.

    I've only shot a 16" with a birdcage flash hider, I definitely felt a difference. Adding the right amount of weight and a brake could mitigate all of that I guess.
     
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