Eagle Creek Motor Restriction Crackdown

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  • AGarbers

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    Feb 4, 2009
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    Has anyone been aware of a crackdown on Eagle Creek preventing boats with motors larger than 10hp from launching. It was my understanding previously you could still launch but could only use kicker motors or trolling motors. Now they supposedly will not allow you to launch if you have an oversized motor mounted on the boat.
     

    amboy49

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    Had not heard of the crackdown. It is my understanding that the DNR isn’t the policing agency that monitors this. It’s the Eagle Creek Park ranger that performs that duty.

    Sure is gonna cut down on the guys with the big bass boats - and probably shut down the occasional loosely held bass tournaments some of the guys have once in awhile.

    I have a 15 hp Mariner on my small 14 ft v bottom. When I purchased the boat and motor someone had purchased a 9.9 hp sticker and stuck it on the motor cover. Over the years that sticker was compromised and I peeled it off. I checked eBay for a replacement 9.9 sticker - asking price is over $45 ( for one small decal)

    It is my understanding a knowledgeable person can check the ID plate on outboard motors and it will tell what the hp is.

    All about timing and luck I guess.
     

    churchmouse

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    Had not heard of the crackdown. It is my understanding that the DNR isn’t the policing agency that monitors this. It’s the Eagle Creek Park ranger that performs that duty.

    Sure is gonna cut down on the guys with the big bass boats - and probably shut down the occasional loosely held bass tournaments some of the guys have once in awhile.

    I have a 15 hp Mariner on my small 14 ft v bottom. When I purchased the boat and motor someone had purchased a 9.9 hp sticker and stuck it on the motor cover. Over the years that sticker was compromised and I peeled it off. I checked eBay for a replacement 9.9 sticker - asking price is over $45 ( for one small decal)

    It is my understanding a knowledgeable person can check the ID plate on outboard motors and it will tell what the hp is.

    All about timing and luck I guess.

    Of course the info is on the rating plate. After years of folks pushing the rules the people monitoring this have gotten a lot smarter.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Of course the info is on the rating plate. After years of folks pushing the rules the people monitoring this have gotten a lot smarter.

    I thought I had heard that through a carb change, one could change a 9.9 to a 15 hp. May have been fishing shop lore though (much like gun shop lore). :):
     

    churchmouse

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    I thought I had heard that through a carb change, one could change a 9.9 to a 15 hp. May have been fishing shop lore though (much like gun shop lore). :):

    If it was "Possible" to get that big a gain in HP by just stepping up on carb size (over 30% when you do the math) then everybody would be doing it. I am not seeing that as a possibility. Carb size is directly related to displacement and other factors. Under size it and the engine will be to lean when in the power band and burn the piston. Especially on a 2 stroke. To big and it just gags.

    Oh, and the lifetime LTCH is going away.....:):
     

    KJQ6945

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    After 45 years of fishing, I've never fished Eagle Creek. This is why. There are plenty of similar sized lakes in Indiana that are idle only, (AKA no horsepower limit). It's a sail boat pond.
     

    amboy49

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    I guess my next question is what is the penalty if you get caught with a bigger motor than 9.9 hp. ? If I’m correct and it’s the park ranger who is the overseeing party, do they have the power to ticket a violator ? If instead it is the DNR, I assume they can write a ticket (?). And, regardless of who writes the ticket, what is the financial liability or or other penalty ? Inquiring minds want to know.
     

    eldirector

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    Eagle Creek Reservoir is Indy Parks, not DNR.

    Ordinance is online:
    https://library.municode.com/in/ind...IIPUORSA_CH341BODOWA_ARTIIBOBO_S341-203UNOPGE

    [FONT=&amp]Sec. 341-204. - Maximum horsepower and length.


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    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]It shall be unlawful for the owner or operator of any motorboat having a motor exceeding ten (10) horsepower or of any boat exceeding twenty-six (26) feet in length or smaller than eight (8) feet in length, to operate, or cause or permit the boat to be operated at any time in and upon any portion of Lake Indy or [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Eagle[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Creek[/FONT][FONT=&amp] Reservoir except for boats owned, operated or under contractual agreement with the city, county or the State of Indiana.[/FONT]

    Appears that they can fine you, like for any other violation.
     

    VERT

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    I thought I had heard that through a carb change, one could change a 9.9 to a 15 hp. May have been fishing shop lore though (much like gun shop lore). :):

    I think you are correct, sort of. I had a 15 HP Johnson years ago. One of the old 2 cycle jobs that they made about a million of. There was a 9.9 and a 15 HP. The mechanic told me the 9.9 actually made something like 12 HP but since it was branded (engine ID tag) and sold as a 9.9 it was good to go on restricted lakes. These were pretty common in certain places. The 15 HP motor had something different regarding the carb, maybe the prop if memory serves and 15 HP was being somewhat generous in what my old motor was capable of providing, think more like 14HP. Otherwise the engines were the same block, size, mounts, etc. My engine tag actually fell off, they are just glued on. In the end I bought a rebuilt 15 HP Johnson for a third of the price of new engine and it pushed my little boat around the lake. My guess is it is still running somewhere.
     

    amboy49

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    Is removing the engine tag like removing the tag on a mattress ? You know, the one that says do not remove under penalty of law ? Can I get in trouble for removing the engine tag ? What if I explain to the LE officer or other powers that be that I changed the carburetor and my motor is now only 9.9 hp capable.

    I can see if someone is running their Ranger bass boat across Eagle Creek at 40 mph that is an obvious and easily identifiable infraction, but if I’m running my 15 mph motor at half throttle just putt putting along the “infraction” wouldn’t even be discernible. If I’m out on the reservoir does the Park Ranger have a boat to get to me and can he stop and question me or are my 4th Amendment rights still valid ?

    If this IS a fineable offense that could result in a monetary penalty this sounds more like a revenue generator than a concern for boater safety.
     

    churchmouse

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    Is removing the engine tag like removing the tag on a mattress ? You know, the one that says do not remove under penalty of law ? Can I get in trouble for removing the engine tag ? What if I explain to the LE officer or other powers that be that I changed the carburetor and my motor is now only 9.9 hp capable.

    I can see if someone is running their Ranger bass boat across Eagle Creek at 40 mph that is an obvious and easily identifiable infraction, but if I’m running my 15 mph motor at half throttle just putt putting along the “infraction” wouldn’t even be discernible. If I’m out on the reservoir does the Park Ranger have a boat to get to me and can he stop and question me or are my 4th Amendment rights still valid ?

    If this IS a fineable offense that could result in a monetary penalty this sounds more like a revenue generator than a concern for boater safety.

    Seriously. The limit is there for a reason. It is a sail boat pond. The limit is set and the guidelines are in place. To exceed them is a fine-able offense agree or not. And yes you will get dinged if they inspect you. The rangers have authority over that park and waters.
    If your existing outboard is too big then dont run it on that body of water. If you do and get caught don't cry about it. If you do and do not get caught no harm no foul.
     

    amboy49

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    5   1   0
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    Eagle Creek Reservoir is Indy Parks, not DNR.

    Ordinance is online:
    https://library.municode.com/in/ind...IIPUORSA_CH341BODOWA_ARTIIBOBO_S341-203UNOPGE



    Appears that they can fine you, like for any other violation.

    I read the attache reg. No mention that I can find re: the potential dollar amount of financial penalty possible. Anyone know how much a ticket cost might be.

    If it’s a hundred bucks or less (including court costs) then I might roll the dice. If it’s more than a hundred dollars then it becomes more problematic.

    Perhaps a cowling decal change may be in order. If my engine sticker accidentally falls off so much the better in which case it’s up to the LE to prove my engine exceeds 9.9 hp.
     
    Last edited:

    churchmouse

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    I think you are correct, sort of. I had a 15 HP Johnson years ago. One of the old 2 cycle jobs that they made about a million of. There was a 9.9 and a 15 HP. The mechanic told me the 9.9 actually made something like 12 HP but since it was branded (engine ID tag) and sold as a 9.9 it was good to go on restricted lakes. These were pretty common in certain places. The 15 HP motor had something different regarding the carb, maybe the prop if memory serves and 15 HP was being somewhat generous in what my old motor was capable of providing, think more like 14HP. Otherwise the engines were the same block, size, mounts, etc. My engine tag actually fell off, they are just glued on. In the end I bought a rebuilt 15 HP Johnson for a third of the price of new engine and it pushed my little boat around the lake. My guess is it is still running somewhere.

    That is interesting. So there might be 2 HP on tap with a carb change.
     

    eldirector

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    Apr 29, 2009
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    I read the attache reg. No mention that I can find re: the potential dollar amount of financial penalty possible. Anyone know how much a ticket cost might be.

    If it’s a hundred bucks or less (including court costs) then I might roll the dice. If it’s more than a hundred dollars then it becomes more problematic.

    In the same municipal code:
    [FONT=&amp]Sec. 103-3. - General penalties for violations of Code.


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    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](a)
    Whenever in any chapter, article, division or section of this Code, or of any ordinances amendatory thereof or supplemental thereto:
    (1)
    The doing of any act, or the omission to do any act or to perform any duty, is declared to be a violation of this Code, or of any such amendatory or supplemental ordinance, or of any provision thereof, or is declared to be unlawful; and
    (2)
    If there shall be no fine or penalty otherwise specifically prescribed or declared for any such violation, or for doing or for omitting to do any such act or to perform any such duty;
    any person found to have committed any such violation shall be fined, by way of a penalty therefor, an amount not exceeding any limitation under IC 36-1-3-8 for each such violation, act or omission.
    (b)
    In addition to the foregoing penalty, the city may enjoin or abate any violation of this Code by appropriate action.

    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp](G.O. 68, 1988, § 6; G.O. 92, 2008, § 1)[/FONT]

    References Indiana Code:
    Indiana Code 2018 - Indiana General Assembly, 2019 Session
    [FONT=&amp]IC 36-1-3-8Powers specifically withheld
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp] Sec. 8. (a) Subject to subsection (b), a unit does not have the following:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](1) The power to condition or limit its civil liability, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](2) The power to prescribe the law governing civil actions between private persons.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](3) The power to impose duties on another political subdivision, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](4) The power to impose a tax, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](5) The power to impose a license fee greater than that reasonably related to the administrative cost of exercising a regulatory power.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](6) The power to impose a service charge or user fee greater than that reasonably related to reasonable and just rates and charges for services.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](7) The power to regulate conduct that is regulated by a state agency, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](8) The power to prescribe a penalty for conduct constituting a crime or infraction under statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](9) The power to prescribe a penalty of imprisonment for an ordinance violation.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](10) The power to prescribe a penalty of a fine as follows:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](A) More than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for the violation of an ordinance or a regulation concerning air emissions adopted by a county that has received approval to establish an air permit program under IC 13-17-12-6.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](B) For a violation of any other ordinance:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](i) more than two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) for a first violation of the ordinance; and[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](ii) except as provided in subsection (c), more than seven thousand five hundred dollars ($7,500) for a second or subsequent violation of the ordinance.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](11) The power to invest money, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](12) The power to order or conduct an election, except as expressly granted by statute.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](13) The power to adopt or enforce an ordinance described in section 8.5 of this chapter.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](14) The power to take any action prohibited by section 8.6 of this chapter.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](15) The power to dissolve a political subdivision, except:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](A) as expressly granted by statute; or[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](B) if IC 36-1-8-17.7 applies to the political subdivision, in accordance with the procedure set forth in IC 36-1-8-17.7.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (b) A township does not have the following, except as expressly granted by statute:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](1) The power to require a license or impose a license fee.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](2) The power to impose a service charge or user fee.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp](3) The power to prescribe a penalty.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp] (c) Subsection (a)(10)(B)(ii) does not apply to the violation of an ordinance that regulates traffic or parking.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp][Pre-Local Government Recodification Citations: 17-2-2.5-3 part; 17-2-2.5-4 part; 18-1-1.5-1 part; 18-1-1.5-4; 18-1-1.5-13 part; 18-1-1.5-19 part; 18-1-1.5-20 part; 18-3-1-47 part; 18-3-1-49 part; 18-4-2-2 part; 18-4-2-3; 18-4-2-35(b); 18-4-2-35(c); 19-10-3-1.][/FONT]
    As added by Acts 1980, P.L.211, SEC.1. Amended by Acts 1981, P.L.17, SEC.3; P.L.123-1987, SEC.2; P.L.3-1987, SEC.540; P.L.3-1990, SEC.122; P.L.251-1993, SEC.4; P.L.164-1995, SEC.14; P.L.1-1996, SEC.84; P.L.200-2005, SEC.4; P.L.13-2013, SEC.148; P.L.150-2016, SEC.1; P.L.189-2016, SEC.5.

    Bolded the maximum penalty part.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    At one point in time in the quite recent past, the City had their own Parks Police / Park Rangers... I cannot find a peep about them on the Indy Gov website nor the IMPD website.

    Some digging on much older threads on other forums lead me to believe that not all of the Rangers were ILEA certified; many were "special police" and potentially have somewhat limited police powers (possibly including no real police powers outside of IndyGov's borders).

    Anyhow - that's just an aside. Since I didn't find anything that stated that the Indy Park Rangers had been disbanded or absorbed into IMPD - you may wish to err on the side of caution and realized you may very well be dealing with a law enforcement officer of some flavor and not just some schmoe security guard like the Indiana State Parks have (not the CO's).
     

    eldirector

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    KJQ6945

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    Just an FYI, I heard this from another outdoor writer. A friend of mine from WildIndiana.com has reached out to both the DNR and Indy Parks for more information. The rumor is that IDNR will no longer provide stocking of muskie or walleye for the lake.
    Here is a little more discussion on the topic.
    https://www.facebook.com/wildindiana/posts/2480113105553149


    Until they make it " idle only" and do away with the ignorant 10 HP limit, **** them!

    Eagle Creek is roughly 1500 acres, as I recall, and I had to have my 225 jacked and tilted out of the water to avoid a ticket. 1500 acres is to big for trolling motor only. I hope the fish get big enough to eat sailboaters and democrats. I'll giggle, because they earned it by their meddling. Sail boat pond!
     
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