New colt POI adjustment?

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  • Sirshredalot

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    Hey INGO.

    Just put the first couple hundred rounds through my new 1970a1cs Colt.

    Had my trusty Kimber 1st gen along side to compare the two....well..

    The colt shoots about 10-12" lower at 25 yards than the Kimber(adjustable sights...adjusted all the way down)....from a rest.

    The Colt NEEDS a trigger job badly...a very creepy and gritty 6ish-lb pull compared to my 3.5lb glass rod Kimber....But most importantly I would like the POI to be close between the two guns...and Im not changing the Kimber....its refined just the way I like it...so the Colt will need to compensate in order to ring steel at 25-30 yards.

    Trouble is...about an hour worth of google and I havent found 1) a shorter stake on front sight, or 2) a higher rear sight...looking hard at the 10-8 and Yost/harrison retro USGI sights....but theyre all supposedly the same .315" height as the OEM Colt rear sight.

    Short of filing the front sight down or milling a front dovetail....does anyone know of a shorter front sight or taller rear sight to fit a USGI/70 series Colt?
    I will resort to surgery as a last dash effort, but would prefer not to cut my brand new gun....Id also like(must) keep a "GI" appearance or my garand will be pissed.

    Please and thank you
    God bless
    -Shred
     

    AllenM

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    sounds to me that milling your existing front sight shorter would be the best solution. But have it milled, not filed. there are front sight height calculators online and it would not be to hard to get it right.
    Or send it to Colt.

    This will not work if the sigt has a white dot in it though.
     
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    churchmouse

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    The trigger can be easily dealt with "But".......If you want the action you describe you will need to put some good parts in it.
    AllenM has the skills to do both for you.
     

    halfmileharry

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    I'd get the trigger "fixed" before you mess with the sights, try a different brand ammo in it, experiment with grips, and as simple as it sounds make sure the barrel is smoothed in. I've seen a few new guns that the new rifling needed shot in. Clean all residue out of the rifling extremely well. It will change the POI/POA occasionally.
    It's not unusual to have a fixed sight 1911 to shoot off from sight aim BUT since you've got a Kimber with rear sight all the way down you might want to look at the 3 types of aiming off the sights.
    Just thinking out loud here but have someone else shoot the gun that's familiar with the old "GI" type sight shooting.
    All sight types are different.
     

    AllenM

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    I'd get the trigger "fixed" before you mess with the sights, try a different brand ammo in it, experiment with grips, and as simple as it sounds make sure the barrel is smoothed in. I've seen a few new guns that the new rifling needed shot in. Clean all residue out of the rifling extremely well. It will change the POI/POA occasionally.
    It's not unusual to have a fixed sight 1911 to shoot off from sight aim BUT since you've got a Kimber with rear sight all the way down you might want to look at the 3 types of aiming off the sights.
    Just thinking out loud here but have someone else shoot the gun that's familiar with the old "GI" type sight shooting.
    All sight types are different.

    Good points
     

    Sirshredalot

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    I really only shoot my own reloads...other than SD ammo....so 3.9gr Clays under a 200gr LSWC or 5.3gr Green Dot under a 230gr LRN.

    What should I expect from this gun?...I suppose I should ask this question...This is my third new 1911 and 5th overall...and actually the "loosest" gun Ive encountered.

    There are no bad machining marks...but the thumb safety is fairly ambiguous feeling, the trigger rattles in the frame terribly, and trigger pull sucks.

    Am I expecting too much from Colt?

    Thanks for the replies so far.

    please and thank you
    God bless
    -Shred
     

    churchmouse

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    I really only shoot my own reloads...other than SD ammo....so 3.9gr Clays under a 200gr LSWC or 5.3gr Green Dot under a 230gr LRN.

    What should I expect from this gun?...I suppose I should ask this question...This is my third new 1911 and 5th overall...and actually the "loosest" gun Ive encountered.

    There are no bad machining marks...but the thumb safety is fairly ambiguous feeling, the trigger rattles in the frame terribly, and trigger pull sucks.

    Am I expecting too much from Colt?

    Thanks for the replies so far.

    please and thank you
    God bless
    -Shred

    Yes, Colt has slipped.

    This can all be fixed.....:)
     

    17 squirrel

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    And please dont take this wrong....
    As I recall, field grade Colt 1911's all rattle, they are designed to be loose and rattle. The trigger is supposed to be heavy, its not a target pistol.
    It's a sidearm built for a soldier..
    And It's not a Gold Cup.



    JMHO....
     

    Sirshredalot

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    The trigger can be easily dealt with "But".......If you want the action you describe you will need to put some good parts in it.
    AllenM has the skills to do both for you.

    Alright...I'll bite.

    Where does one procure a wide spur hammer of quality that isnt $145(turnbul)?
    Also...Id like a medium length trigger that looks "GI"...not many people make them?
    Fit a new bushing for accuracy or leave it "reliable"?
    Mill the front sight or "learn" how to shoot it?

    I understand this gun isnt a custom built match/range queen, but Id like to think that $850 gets me better than a rattle that shoots 5" groups at 25 yards from a rest.

    As soon as I get a hold of a camera that will take good close up pictures I'll post some issues I have with the gun....roll mark has...issues?
    Overall...Im happy-ish...just with it would hurry up and get some holster wear so I can feel good about carrying it.

    God bless
    -Shred
     

    AllenM

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    I would love to see some pictures
    But to me, it's either go all in or leave it alone. any 1911's should be well looked over before buying. If you have a true colt "rattle can" cost to thoroughly accurize it is not practical. Fitting a barrel bushing is one thing but if slide frame and barrel fit are that loose cost goes up from there.

    A new barrel bushing won't make a huge difference, not that I wouldn't do it, it would help but it's a small portion of the big picture.
    A well fit barrel bushing will not effect reliability. Loose does not necessarily equal reliable.
    If it were mine I would do sights, trigger work and a barrel bushing and that's about it.
    Trigger work would help accuracy as much as anything. But your still going to be dropping a few hundred more into it if you dovetail sights in.

    There are replacement stake on sights that would help alot and save significant cost. Dovetail would be best but......

    Check Ebay and Numrich for the trigger you want and measure or have the slide and barrel measured for a bushing. There are a couple other things that can be done but I would go cost effective. I would probably do a new extractor and springs through out.

    Tightening Slide to frame and a new barrel and so on, you might as well get something that is tight from the get go. If you really want a Colt buy a newer one and leave this one alone. Or just inspect closly before buying
    I have 2 newer ones that are just plain sweet right out of the box.
    You will get upside down fast in this one it sounds like to me.

    :twocents:
     

    Sirshredalot

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    Colt rollmark.JPG

    Roll mark is crap?

    At 10 yards it shoots POA(fist sized group..some vertical stringing) with 230gr LRN/5.3gr green dot and federal HST's 230gr....the 230gr Sig v-crown ammo shot 2" low and right....mildly brisk shooting speed, quickly acquire front sight...align and squeeze...free hand standing in the wind...Id say "combat accurate".
    25 yards I still couldnt ring a 10" steel gong...neither could my brother....we couldnt see them splash in the dirt mound.

    It also ejects brass...EVERYWHERE....10' backwards, 5' forwards, 8' to the right, some landed at my feet.

    AllenM, thanks for the insight...Im going to see what colt says...I sent them this picture too...but this IS a brand new out of the box Colt...Ive had it two weeks...about 200-300 rounds through it.
    Bought it over the interweb because no one within 100 miles stocked one...and they wanted over $100 more to order one.

    God bless
    -Shred
     
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    churchmouse

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    Part of the rattle could be in the lock up or lack of it. Put the slide into battery and press down on the rear of the barrel hood. If it moves at all this can effect accuracy and add to the rattle.
    The last Colt I owned had terrible lock up. Required an over sized pin to be fit. Fit a bushing to it and a lot of the rattle was gone and accuracy was fair.
     

    Sirshredalot

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    I checked this....it does seem to move a touch....its perceptible by feel...maybe two or three thousandths?....Dont know how to measure it properly though.
    Ive got a caliper for reloading but no longer have any micrometers.

    EDIT: In battery untouched: 1.512 from inside trigger guard to barrel...pressed firmly closes to 1.508.

    God bless
    -Shred
     

    AllenM

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    View attachment 45518

    Roll mark is crap?

    At 10 yards it shoots POA(fist sized group..some vertical stringing) with 230gr LRN/5.3gr green dot and federal HST's 230gr....the 230gr Sig v-crown ammo shot 2" low and right....mildly brisk shooting speed, quickly acquire front sight...align and squeeze...free hand standing in the wind...Id say "combat accurate".
    25 yards I still couldnt ring a 10" steel gong...neither could my brother....we couldnt see them splash in the dirt mound.

    It also ejects brass...EVERYWHERE....10' backwards, 5' forwards, 8' to the right, some landed at my feet.

    AllenM, thanks for the insight...Im going to see what colt says...I sent them this picture too...but this IS a brand new out of the box Colt...Ive had it two weeks...about 200-300 rounds through it.
    Bought it over the interweb because no one within 100 miles stocked one...and they wanted over $100 more to order one.

    God bless
    -Shred


    Well thats disapointing. I would definatly send it back. I thought we were tlking about an older gun.
     

    01deuce

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    I could be wrong , but I bet the rattle is the grip safety. If it is, a little tweak of the spring and that will go away. My two colt Wiley clapp governments slide to frame fit are not tight at all and still shoot lights out. My Springfield long beach operator has a extremely nice and tight slide to frame fit and doesn't shoot anywhere close as accurate as the two WC Colts. I tend to believe when people say Colt builds them that way for a reason and knows what they are doing. I did put extended ejectors in them to have a much better ejection pattern.

    When you move from 10 yards to 25 yards are you shooting from a rest?
     
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