458 SOCOM won't go into battery

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  • Hornett

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    I bought a Radical Firearms upper last year and just cannot get it to run.
    I was not ejecting very well so I put in a ejector spring upgrade kit with the little o ring.
    Tried it again on Saturday before fathers day.
    Now it won't go into battery most of the time.
    I could get the first round to go in sometimes (with the charging handle), but never the second.
    The second round does not go into battery.
    It seems to stop right about where the bolt should start rotating.
    Feeding rounds one at a time, it is crazy accurate so it's worth investing some time.
    But I am not sure where to start.
    Any help is appreciated.
    Thanks!
     

    AllenM

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    could it be the ejector is stiff and not ramping over the case? Also are you running a 458 buffer spring?
     

    Hornett

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    It may be.
    I wondered if that rubber washer was too stiff but I tried it anyway.
    It does seem to be ejecting better than it was before the rubber washer and spring ejector upgrade.
    Maybe, I should just remove the upgrade rubber washer and use the upgraded spring for the ejector.

    I do not have a 458 buffer spring or heavy buffer because the general consensus at Teppo Jutsu is 'The platform was designed to run on standard AR buffers, so ya' don't need 'em."
    But I am open to any suggestions.
     

    AllenM

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    I am not real familiar with them but the Rock River i had came with 2 different springs
     

    cncswiss1

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    not ejecting very well is normally gas settings-
    the extractor spring is putting more bite on the case and making it harder to chamber,I'd remove it

    I would swap out the spring for a stronger one if you have a few laying around. and if you have parts laying around i would weigh your buffers to find the lightest one.

    these rounds that failed to eject well wouldn't be the 140 grain Polycase rounds would they? they fly so much faster the gas dwell time is shorter and they will short stroke (or come real close to) most rifles (I have 4 458's and only 1 runs them 100%)

    check BCG "freeness", check for crud in gas system, check gas block alignment (use air blow method if needed). check for schmutz in the gas pipe on the top of the BCG (I've seen it)

    *edit for spelling and poor grammar
     

    Hornett

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    not ejecting very well is normally gas settings-
    the extractor spring is putting more bite on the case and making it harder to chamber,I'd remove it

    Okay, I will do that tonight.

    I would swap out the spring for a stronger one if you have a few laying around. and if you have parts laying around i would weigh your buffers to find the lightest one.
    I don't have any spare parts at all. I am assuming you mean the buffer spring here, Right?

    these rounds that failed to eject well wouldn't be the 140 grain Polycase rounds would they? they fly so much faster the gas dwell time is shorter and they will short stroke (or come real close to) most rifles (I have 4 458's and only 1 runs them 100%)
    No 300 grain running at 1800 fps according to the box

    check BCG "freeness", check for crud in gas system, check gas block alignment (use air blow method if needed). check for schmutz in the gas pipe on the top of the BCG (I've seen it)
    Kind of a noob to diagnosing problems, how do you do the "air blow method"
     

    halfmileharry

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    Have you got another BCG laying around? That's the FIRST thing I'd try.
    I'd go to the gas system next. Check the gas block alignment, hole in the barrel, and make sure the gas tube is free and open.
    I had a bad gas block a couple of years ago. I never imagined a bad gas block but I had one first hand. It was hard to diagnose as the problem was intermittent.
     

    Hornett

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    Yes, I took the BCG out of my 5.56 AR that runs really well and switched them.
    After that neither gun would chamber a round.
    We switched them back and the 5.56 ran fine again.
    That is why I am pretty sure CNCSwiss1 was right and I need to take the extra o ring out of the extractor.

    But I also think there is more going on than the extractor tuning with the SOCOM...

    I will take a look at the gas block too.
     

    halfmileharry

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    When you say "chamber" do you mean EVEN when cycling manually a round will NOT chamber into the barrel?
    OR it will NOT cycle and load the next round into the chamber after the previous round fires?
    I've seen gas blocks loose and slide away from the barrel port. I'd be starting with taking the good bcg and using it, re-align, clean, secure gas system first.
     
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    usmcdjb

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    I bought a RRA upper half and put it on one of my lowers some time ago. Had all kinds of trouble with it. Was using Cor Bon Hunter 300 gr JHP. It wouldn't always go into battery. Sometimes needing to mortar it on the ground to get the round out. Wouldn't eject right when I did get it to chamber and fire. Gun went back to RRA where they reamed the chamber, tested, and sent it back saying it was ok. Kept having troubles. RRA said it was the ammo. Cor Bon said it was the rifle.

    I bought another 458 complete rifle, and continued to have issues with the ammo. In the end, I got some Wilson Combat ammo and it functioned fine. And Cor Bon ended up replacing the ammo a few times before it finally worked.

    I don't know if your problem is the same, just stating what I had happen. It was frustrating beyond belief and a lot of time before I think everything was sorted.

    Good luck.
     

    Hornett

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    HalfMileHarry,
    It will chamber the round about half the time when closing an open bolt or chambering manually from a closed bolt.
    Then it always stopped short of battery on the next round when firing.

    usmcdjb,
    I have a box of Cor Bon, but I have not tried it yet.
    I was shooting new ammo from Freedom Munitions and some from Great Lakes.
    That being said, I never had a problem getting the round out of the chamber.
     

    halfmileharry

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    I bought a Pink .380 from one of INGO's finest and got some freedom ammo with it. I did have some trouble with the gun running with it. I had two boxes of it that were problematic. I also shot the Freedom ammo from my old P3AT and it didn't want to run or feed in it. I gave the ammo to a buddy with a G42 and it ran fine in the Glock.

    Different ammo is worth a try. I'm at a loss unless the chamber is very tight and some cases just don't work in it. Heck, I can guess all day without hands on.
     

    Hornett

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    In the next couple of days, I will:
    Remove the o ring and hopefully free up the extractor a little bit.
    Drop a shell in the chamber and see if it is tight.
    Try a couple of reloads that I got from a buddy. (He is pretty particular)
    Look at the gas block and make sure the gas port is open.

    Then I will report back.
    Thanks for all the suggestions.
     

    cncswiss1

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    there was a batch of out of spec 400 grain cor-bon ammo some time ago
    some of the early rock river chambers were a bit tight and needed re reamed or "flitzed"

    the air blow method is to remove the barrel and plug the breech with a rag and blow int he barrel and feel the amount of air coming out of the gas block.

    I second the other advice- be sure the bolt moves freely in the rifle, check gas tube centering (look at it from below with upper removed and no bolt)
    check gas ring clocking
    take the bolt completely apart and clean with mineral spirits or bra-kleen to remove any sticky cosmoline. reassemble with plenty of thin oil


    what kind of mags are you using? GI mags may need a little half moon ground in the front for smoother feeding
    Magmod2.jpg


    visually inspect the brass- if it looks like this your chamber is tight and needs returned to be fixed
    9d4f024c.jpg
     

    Hornett

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    UPDATE:
    I did remove the rubber o ring from the extractor spring.
    Now it seems to go into battery every time.
    I did the one shell in the magazine test and the fired case extracted at around 2:00 and the bolt locked open.
    So, I don't think I have gas issues at this point.

    Now to the dumb part.
    I did grind a little half moon in the front of the mag very similar to the picture that cncswiss1 posted in post #14 above.
    I did it to 3 mags and now they all 3 drive straight into the receiver and jamb.
    The bullets never tip up to enter the chamber.
    So I may have destroyed these mags forever. :dunno:
    These were all cheap metal mags I picked up randomly, so no big loss.
    I think I am going to buy a couple of mags from tromix or wilson combat so I can eliminate any problems caused by the magazine.

    The wilson combat mags only come in the 20 round version (holds 7)
    AR Style Magazine | .458 SOCOM | 7 Round | Lancer L5 AWM-http://shopwilsoncombat.com/
    The Tromix comes in the 30 round (holds 10)
    458 SOCOM Parts Scroll down to see the mags
    The tromix mag has some kind of disclaimer that the magazines don't have the center feed follower.
    I don't even know what that is.
    It is right below the magazines if you scroll down but I still don't know if it's needed or not.
    I really think I want the bigger capacity but I also have extreme confidence in wilson combat stuff.
    Any input on these two magazines? or suggestions?
     

    halfmileharry

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    You're making progress.
    I like to do the "ONE FIX AT A TIME". That way I can narrow my issue down to ONE problem.
    Try some better mags since you've made sure you need mags now. IF IF IF the better mags work fine I'd try to find quality, more affordable mags. IT might not be mag related on mags that haven't been modified.
     

    DocIndy

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    My AR runs on 20 round Bushmaster mags. The center feed follower, is just that. Standard followers will let 233 stagger as loaded in the mags. My bushmaster mags are standard 223/5.56 followers. The center feed follower holds the 458 dead center in the magazine. It might help your case... or might not. Glad to see you are making progress though.
     

    slowmo

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    I like the Lancer mags. I'm not sure what WC "modifies" on these. Maybe a center follower? I have never had an issue with mine, unmodified 20rds. I don't personally see a need for the center follower. The feed lips should center the round just fine. I have only run ballistic tip, so I don't know how they do with more blunt projectiles. Primary Arms has a sale on Lancers through today. I just just ordered a few more. Various sizes available.

    http://www.primaryarms.com/SaleName+Lancer-Magazines
     
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