Question on "clone" gun markings

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  • Beowulf

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    Mar 21, 2012
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    So, I've been tossing around the idea of building a HK416 clone type AR setup. I have a Titan Defense TD-415 upper, which is pretty much an HK416 upper (slightly different specs, but otherwise the same design).

    What I wanted was a good 416ish lower to complete the package. I've looked at several different lowers out there, trying to find one that looks more or less like the 416 lower and I stumbled across this:

    CNCGUNSMITHING - [url]www.cncguns.com - Projects[/URL]

    CNC Guns had made 80% HK416 clone lowers, and some other folks were finishing them and then engraving them with HK markings, to get something like this:

    HK416%2080%20percent%20clone%20lower%20-%201.jpg


    HK416%2080%20percent%20clone%20lower%20-%204.jpg



    What I'm trying to figure out is that if someone took the above 80% lower, machine it out and engraved their name, city/state, and serial number (as you do when making a firearm), would you fall afoul of any ATF regs about markings? I've seen other new guns with reproduction military markings (like the reproduction Auto Ordnance M1 Carbines for example, or some of the GSG .22 copy cat guns), but how does that work on a more contemporary design?

    I'm pretty sure HK wouldn't be too pleased, but if you aren't selling them, I'm not sure they would bother. My concern would more be how the ATF would view such a lower.
     

    Trigger Time

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    Aug 26, 2011
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    You don't need to engrave your info unless you plan to sell it at some point which opens another csn,of worms
    Or if you just want to track it for your records if it's stolen.
    Or if you plan,to make it a SBR.

    The other markings and such on it are legal. I'm assuming you mean the full auto markings. There is no sear pin hole drilled so,you are fine.

    I know someone who has one of these complete clones and loves it. Thise 80% lowers where over $300 about a year or.two ago. Not sure what they are now but you're gonna pay for it.
    They did get sued by HK or threatened because he was at one.point selling them complete WITH the HK markings already on them I think. He stopped.

    Id buy one of the uppers. They run good from what I've seen
     

    Beowulf

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    You don't need to engrave your info unless you plan to sell it at some point which opens another csn,of worms
    Or if you just want to track it for your records if it's stolen.
    Or if you plan,to make it a SBR.

    The other markings and such on it are legal. I'm assuming you mean the full auto markings. There is no sear pin hole drilled so,you are fine.

    I know someone who has one of these complete clones and loves it. Thise 80% lowers where over $300 about a year or.two ago. Not sure what they are now but you're gonna pay for it.
    They did get sued by HK or threatened because he was at one.point selling them complete WITH the HK markings already on them I think. He stopped.

    Id buy one of the uppers. They run good from what I've seen

    Actually, I was more concerned about all the HK markings (made in Germany, etc etc), not the full auto markings. I know those are fine.

    As to the TD-415 uppers, mine does run pretty well, once it was paired with the right buffer weight (it doesn't seem to like a really heavy buffer). I was running it on my M16 lower and it was churning out full auto just fine.
     

    duffman0286

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    Feb 3, 2011
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    I built one of there lowers good quality lower but about the most complex 80% on the market (needs the take down holes drilled as well as the pistol grip hole) and they wont work with any other ar15 jig other than theirs (no worries i have one).... i engraved all the HK markings on mine with my own serial number (i used my birthday) i used pantograph engraver (old school new hermes) no depth control it did a pretty good job and being my first stab at it i was happy. I didn't realize my work was angled until i was finished sadly but it was good enough for me! i would like to build another sometime but finding the shorter 10in upper is difficult
    20160409_133736.jpg 20160409_194829.jpg
     

    AKMSU

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    Jan 4, 2014
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    Westfield
    The route I am going is 80% with diy etching off a stencil from dogfighting.com. Still tyring to figure out how I am going to finish the lower and also looking for one of those Titan Defense uppers...
     

    Beowulf

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    I should have updated this thread. So while CNC Gunsmithing is no longer doing the HK416 80%, you can still get on from ArcticArms on Gunbroker (they are doing them themselves, I believe, and these aren't CNC lowers).

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/699092309

    They will engrave anything else on there if you want for an extra charge. I picked one up and had them put on some of the additional markings, including a serial number, that I'd need if I finish it (which I still haven't done). I did also buy some relatively cheap unmarked 80% lowers to practice on first, when I get around to doing it.
     
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