1911 Slide to Frame Fit - How Important?

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  • 88E30M50

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    I picked up a 9mm Colt 1911 last year with an eye towards using it as a project gun. I've run about 400 trouble free rounds through it and I've been thinking of starting the project on that gun. The issue I have though is that the frame to slide fit is awful. I don't know that I've seen as loose a fit as on this one before. But, the gun is reasonably accurate and has proven to be reliable so far. I don't want to throw a bunch of money into this gun and the project would include doing a beaver tail grip safety, extended thumb safety, EGW internals, Novak sight cuts with TFX Pros, grips, front strap checkering and either a re-blue or Cerakote finish. My options right now are to have the rails welded and fit when it's in for the checkering and sight cuts, doing the project while ignoring the looseness or just leaving the gun as is and enjoying it as a simple plinking toy.

    Ignoring the looseness and doing the project anyway would be doable, but the rest of my 1911s range from a small amount of slide movement to none at all. I don't know if I'm worrying too much about the battle rattle and should press on as is or go all out on the gun. I don't want to turn a $650 gun into a $700 gun that cost me $1500 to build. Right now, I'm leaning towards just replacing the internals and calling it done. But, I love a good project and that one could be a good project.
     

    rvb

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    If the barrel locks up good and consistent, it matters very little. ... unless the sights are mounted to the frame (eg using a frame-mounted red dot).

    -rvb
     

    obijohn

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    If the barrel locks up good and consistent, it matters very little. ... unless the sights are mounted to the frame (eg using a frame-mounted red dot).

    -rvb


    This. Back in the day, we built our 1911's a bit sloppy for reliability. Lock up was built tight and repeatable, but slide to frame a bit loose. If you build a tight gun all around, the frame rails and slide rails have to be perfectly parallel and square or you can end up with reliability issues.
     

    EricG

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    Ive read some material in detail on this. Seems as if the tight slide to frame fit is mostly 1911 marketing jargon.

    Hilton Yam briefly addressed this a few years back. Rattle (side to side, up/down movement) is not synonymous with poor quality/reliability.
     

    88E30M50

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    If the barrel locks up good and consistent, it matters very little. ... unless the sights are mounted to the frame (eg using a frame-mounted red dot).

    -rvb

    That's what started me thinking about this. If the barrel and slide fit is consistent, then the sight alignment does not change. If that's true, then the only time I would see a difference would be during point shooting and when point shooting steel, the difference would be negligible.
     

    Fordtough25

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    I picked up a 9mm Colt 1911 last year with an eye towards using it as a project gun. I've run about 400 trouble free rounds through it and I've been thinking of starting the project on that gun. The issue I have though is that the frame to slide fit is awful. I don't know that I've seen as loose a fit as on this one before. But, the gun is reasonably accurate and has proven to be reliable so far. I don't want to throw a bunch of money into this gun and the project would include doing a beaver tail grip safety, extended thumb safety, EGW internals, Novak sight cuts with TFX Pros, grips, front strap checkering and either a re-blue or Cerakote finish. My options right now are to have the rails welded and fit when it's in for the checkering and sight cuts, doing the project while ignoring the looseness or just leaving the gun as is and enjoying it as a simple plinking toy.

    Ignoring the looseness and doing the project anyway would be doable, but the rest of my 1911s range from a small amount of slide movement to none at all. I don't know if I'm worrying too much about the battle rattle and should press on as is or go all out on the gun. I don't want to turn a $650 gun into a $700 gun that cost me $1500 to build. Right now, I'm leaning towards just replacing the internals and calling it done. But, I love a good project and that one could be a good project.


    You should really just sell it to me and start over with something else, I am jonesin for a 9mm Colt 1911 something fierce!!! Lol :)
     

    churchmouse

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    Ive read some material in detail on this. Seems as if the tight slide to frame fit is mostly 1911 marketing jargon.

    Hilton Yam briefly addressed this a few years back. Rattle (side to side, up/down movement) is not synonymous with poor quality/reliability.

    Well that is all subjective. What you want in a project gun is up to the person that is paying for the project. Same with panel fit on a car restoration. Pretty much the same thing in my mind but my mind has come to be questioned so there is that.
    Marketing jargon....OK what ever.
     

    Expat

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    I just finished my 500 round break in on one of the Les Baers. It is obviously tight as a drum. I only had one failure to return to battery and that was at over 400 rounds and I write that off as the sludge in the gun was getting pretty thick. I had spots on the face and hands after shooting it that last go around.
     

    churchmouse

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    OP brought the Colt to a shoot we put on yesterday.
    The fit up is well beyond loose by standard 1911 spec even milspec. I can push the barrel down near off the lugs with my thumb and the nose if the slide raises up.
    Even an oversize pin will not take all of this out. This is why I "NEVER" buy a gun on line. You stand the chance of getting a turd.

    Yes, slide to frame "IS" important. It is not a marketing ploy. Some slop is OK in a battle accurate piece. My 1942 Colt has just a bit of this. It is expected.
     

    Fordtough25

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    OP brought the Colt to a shoot we put on yesterday.The fit up is well beyond loose by standard 1911 spec even milspec. I can push the barrel down near off the lugs with my thumb and the nose if the slide raises up. Even an oversize pin will not take all of this out. This is why I "NEVER" buy a gun on line. You stand the chance of getting a turd. Yes, slide to frame "IS" important. It is not a marketing ploy. Some slop is OK in a battle accurate piece. My 1942 Colt has just a bit of this. It is expected.
    Did y'all shoot it, function ok? I have yet to shoot a 9mm 1911 but I'd like to. Agree on buying guns online, I like to check me out in person as well beforehand.
     

    Cree

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    CHurchmouse is correct, slide to frame fit is a very important part of the overall accuracy potential of a 1911. The best fit barrel in the world will still be affected by a loose slide to frame fit. It is nearly impossible to ask a barrel to have consistent, repeatable lockup when two parts that affect that lockup are not well fitted. Not to pick on the "marketing ploy" comment too much, but that is just not the case. That having been said, a properly fitted barrel in a 1911 with a less than idea slide to frame fit will still be an improvement over a poorly fit barrel in the same pistol within reason. I just replaced a barrel in a customers 1911 that had some issues. Like Churchmouse was describing above, you could push down on the barrel hood and feel it separating from the upper lugs until it made contact with the slide stop. That is unacceptable. I fitted the pistol with a new Kart barrel and obtained proper lockup. The pistol went from firing 10"-12" vertically strung groups at 25-yards to shooting fist sized groups at 25-yards. Due to the tolerances between the slide and frame, that is as good as it will get with that particular pistol without more work.

    Andy Cree
     

    churchmouse

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    Did y'all shoot it, function ok? I have yet to shoot a 9mm 1911 but I'd like to. Agree on buying guns online, I like to check me out in person as well beforehand.

    Not to my knowledge. There were mote pieces to select from than a person could shoot in a given day. Such is the state of our gatherings.
    We did fiddle with it.
     

    drillsgt

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    OP brought the Colt to a shoot we put on yesterday.
    The fit up is well beyond loose by standard 1911 spec even milspec. I can push the barrel down near off the lugs with my thumb and the nose if the slide raises up.
    Even an oversize pin will not take all of this out. This is why I "NEVER" buy a gun on line. You stand the chance of getting a turd.

    Yes, slide to frame "IS" important. It is not a marketing ploy. Some slop is OK in a battle accurate piece. My 1942 Colt has just a bit of this. It is expected.

    I'd feel pretty comfortable ordering a Springfield online as they are usually pretty consistent but as much as I like Colts, you have to buy one of those in person. I just picked up a new Series 70 repro for a retro project and I hunted for one for awhile until I found one with the slide/barrel fit that I wanted. There's only the slightest bit of tolerance in the slide/frame but i'm still going to get it welded up. In reality the typical shooter probably wouldn't notice any difference with a little play vs. a fitted slide/frame but to me it's more about consistency and a quality feel. With modern manufacturing methods i'm not sure why such loose tolerances are even still a thing at Colt? I'm glad to see though that most of them i've looked at the last 2-3 years have actually been very good.
     

    88E30M50

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    Did y'all shoot it, function ok? I have yet to shoot a 9mm 1911 but I'd like to. Agree on buying guns online, I like to check me out in person as well beforehand.

    Not to my knowledge. There were mote pieces to select from than a person could shoot in a given day. Such is the state of our gatherings.
    We did fiddle with it.

    I did put two mags through it while we were there. The gun is a rattletrap, but it runs well. As I said down there on Saturday, a 9mm 1911 may be an abomination, but they are fun to shoot. To be honest, we shot the bull more than we shot the guns on Saturday. My Delta Elite got all of 15 rounds through it and I thought I was skimping by bringing along only 50 rounds of 10mm. I took 400 rounds of 9mm and brought 350 of them back home.
     

    churchmouse

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    I did put two mags through it while we were there. The gun is a rattletrap, but it runs well. As I said down there on Saturday, a 9mm 1911 may be an abomination, but they are fun to shoot. To be honest, we shot the bull more than we shot the guns on Saturday. My Delta Elite got all of 15 rounds through it and I thought I was skimping by bringing along only 50 rounds of 10mm. I took 400 rounds of 9mm and brought 350 of them back home.

    Our gatherings do include the proper amount of Bull.....:):
     

    praff

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    The other thing that hasnt been mentioned here is longevity. A sloppy gun will tend to wear much faster than one with a thou clearance on the rails. Most pistols just dont get shot enough for this to matter. In an open gun or single stack rig thats getting shot 20-30k per year, its a very important part of the overall build.
     
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